“Be handsome. Be attractive. Don’t be unattractive.”
-Tina Fey, “Saturday Night Live” (aka “The Tom Brady Rule”)
By now, surely you have heard of convicted felon and global heart throb Stockon, CA’s own Mr. Jeremy Meeks – who’s literal mugshot has created a Tinglestorm of seismic proportions. I sensed a disturbance in the Force when I first got wind of the situation early Friday afternoon in my social media feeds and figured that the story had legs – giving those of us who study the ways of the Red Pill example 10,587,993 that EvoPsych, and by extension GAME, is Real.
Before we get to my commentary posted on the topic over at my usual hangout Very Smart Brothas, let’s establish some facts, courtesy of our friend, Mr. Tommy Sotomayor:
-Mr. Meeks, 30 years old, has previously served a 9-year prison sentence for grand theft auto
-Mr. Meeks is married and has at least one child (which we’ve learned recently here in the forum, is actually a Booty Force Multplier of its own)
-And Mr. Meeks’ mother has put up a crowdsourcing effort to raise the funds needed to bail him out of jail – to the tune of $100K USD – an amount that Black Women across the country are quite eager to help Mama Meeks meet
-The local police department that made the Meeks arrest, has reported that they have never gotten as many Facebook “likes” in the history of their online program; as of this writing, Sat, Jun 21, 2014, Meeks has garnered in excess of 60K “likes” and more than 10K comments – virtually all of them by Black Women squealing like teeny bopper White girls for Vine celebs.
These facts put things into a proper context, but wait – there’s more!
Mr. Sotomayor, as you may well have guessed, has weighed in with yet another powerful commentary, on the two following videos – check em out here and here, along with a rare and lengthy written commentary on his website. It greatly informs what is written here by yours truly.
A final word before we get to my VSB commentary on the matter:
To the others reading along, I have but one question, in light of the gazillionith example of realtime validation of the Red Pill:
Who are you gonna believe - the Pleading Sistahood, or your lying eyes?
Here’s my commentary regarding Mr. Meeks, last Friday at Very Smart Brothas:
“Good morning Mr. Champ, and Happy Friday,
A most timely topic, given that last week we discussed the hows and whys Ms. Rihanna is considered among the most fairest of them all.
So today, it’s the fellas’ turn.
Like you, I too was made aware of the gentleman who is the topic of discussion by way of my social media feeds; the ladies were quite vociferous in their approval of him. And for good reason:
Because, by all accounts, he exhibits qualities of high genetic quality. And therefore, represents good mating material.
While a paltry few ladies have suggested that his criminal activities and ink adornment are detractions from his overall attractiveness, the evidence as we have it says otherwise. It is a well-known fact that criminals and thugs have a much higher appeal amongst the ladyfolk than square peg Poindexters – and of course, anything that is true for White folk, goes double, if not triple, for Black America. There, the Thug, Reigns Supreme.
Every Brotha reading this, regardless to his own sociopolitical orientation, personal beliefs and philosophy, etc, knows this; unlike Women, who, due to their inherent higher value on the mating market in relation to most Men at any given time, can afford to delude themselves with #ChickLogic, Men learn the realites of the mating dance Three the Hard Way – and are quickly disabused of any Blue Pill thinking they were inculcated with by their parent(s), society and Hollywood Black Rom-Coms. Whether any particular Brotha chooses to Thug-It Up is irrelevant; the fact remains that on balance, Brothas who are Thugs can and will do better with the ladies, than Brothas who do not.
End of.
And if said Thug Brothas also happen to be easy on the eyes, as this Brotha currently under diiscussion clearly is, well, it all amounts to a massively powerful Mating Force Multiplier that, well, speaks for itself.
This is how and why, so many Brothas attempt to thug it up, folks. No, there is nothing wrong with your tv set. They are responding to clear and present signals that Black Women, a plurality of them mind you, have indicated they most desire in Black Men – aside from the physical requirements, which may or may not be achieveable, Black WOmen have also indicated that they find extreme amounts of Confidence (read: “Swag” in Ebonics), which is itself a proxy for Resources and Social Status, along with extreme amounts of Social Dominance (Women get massively turned on by Men who are able to bend other Men to his will – please see the fight scene in the film “The Bourne Identity“, or listen to Jill Scott’s “So In Love” for more on this point), to be near passing-out intoxicatingly attracative in Black Men.
Now, to be sure, there ARE subtle permutations of difference among Black Women themselves along these lines; not all Sistas will go in for say, a Shawty Lo type. However, they WILL go in for say, the fictional Stringer Bell - a notorious drugs lord in the hit HBO crime drama “The Wire”, who was also notorious for being exceptionally intelligent.
There is the view among some Brothas, that Sistas don’t find “smart” Brothas attractive; this is not the case. Indeed, Sistas DO find smart Brothas immensely attractive, IF they have what I refer to as the Power of And. What is the Power of And?
It works like this for this audience:
A Brotha has to be smart
AND
Handsome
AND
And able to parlay said intelligence into tangible success/status/resources
AND
Has the ability, and willingness, to use violence when necessary (but NEVER against the Sista in question, you see – ONLY against other knuckleheads)
See how that works? The Female Mating Mind is wired in such a way that it needs multiple “keys” to unlock her thighs *and they have to be turned all at the same time*; this is by Nature’s design – a way to prevent said female from making a mating mistake. The Power of And ensures that a Sista is making the best possible mating decision at the time, by imposing all of the above “Ands” – this is how and why so many Sistas have those notorious “lists” that we’re all familiar with. To paraphrase Mr. Scarface, her mind’s playing tricks on her.
So this is why Stringer Bell enjoys near universal appeal among the Sistahood – he’s a very handsome Brotha in a very dangerous business, who’s intelligence has not only made it possible for him to evade capture or death at the hands of the police and potential rivals, but it has given him the ability to leverage said drugs dealing into legitimate business holdings.
Additionally, he not only gains the respect of other Men, but is able, both indirectly through his social network and directly in the form of his being able to send his henchman to handle offenders, to mete out violence when called for. Note that he is the anthesis of many other Black male characters of the Wire – a Brotha who is very measured, thoughtful and deliberate, and conveys this in his actions and words. Only toward the end of his life, does his frame begin to show fractures in the facade.
In that this is a venue that caters to a more White Collar crowd, I’ll share the following in closing:
Something I discovered over the years, was that quite a few Sistas could be heard murmuring that the Cubicle Brothas, while “nice”, sometimes charming and without a doubt able to fend for himself and others financially, had lost that certain “something”; as a lifelong Blue Collar Brotha, I immediately knew what it was. Feminism, along with other major interventions, has had a very profound impact on the kinds of Brothas that makeup the core of the Afrosphere’s male demographic; in a word, they’re soft. Brothas like the one featured in Champ’s post, or Stringer Bell for that matter, still retain those essential elements of Maleness that Sistas go Cuckoo for Cocoa Puffs over. Brothas here and elsewhere throughout the Afrosphere, would do well to consider this and make the needed adjustments in order to compensate.
I recommend taking up a martial art – Boxing is a good place to start. Get roughed up a bit, chicks dig a scar or two. Learn how to Break a Man Up in hand to hand combat. Also: do some actual realworld work that Men are known to do: build/teardown a house. Build a car from the ground up. You get the idea. Much of work today is stuff that Women could do as well. Not good for you. There’s also an added benefit of doing manual labor -you make money on the side and you lose weight/get in shape. One reason why I haven’t had much need for gyms and the like over the course of my life was due to my being a very active Man as a result of the nature of my work. Even now in my retirement, I am more fit than most Men my age, and have been told as much by a number of ladies (we all know that Black Women are no ways shy when it comes to what they do/don’t like in Men, LOL).
Thug Brothas represent the Power of And in the Mating Minds of the Sistas, lads – and you would do well to learn a thing or two from them.”
“Tingles Uber Alles”
-J4G regular Farm Boy
Now adjourn your arses…
The Obsidian
Seriously?
This whole Jeremy Meeks fiasco boils my blood.
I came to read the subsequent comments!
Tagging…
Tagging…
O.
Tagging again…
O.
I have to chuckle at the men who are shocked that there are women fawning over Mr. Meeks. Especially the black men. Tell me, brothers: When is the last time you’ve been involved with a quiet, DEMURE black woman who isn’t carrying an AARP card? Let me make it easier: When is the last time you’ve seen a quiet, demure black woman under the age of 70? I won’t hold my breath..
Today’s black woman has no idea what subtlety is and they dayum sure don’t know how to play the dating game. They are the only women who are willing to say out loud that they’re looking for a husband AFTER they have had three or four kids by three different dudes and they fully expect not to get laughed at. Seeing them act like Mr. Meeks is a matinee idol is par for the course.
I don’t begrudge women their choices–it’s their life and they are free to do as they please. But dayum..can y’all sisters at least keep it classy? That Meeks guy ain’t even got a sister for a wife and y’all still fiending for him? Not only is he a thug, he don’t even date sisters but they’re the main ones panting after him. No dignity at all..Sheesh..talk about being thirsty..
I know that there are plenty of beta men out here but name me one MAN sporting a backbone who finds single mothers with multiple kids by multiple dudes attractive? That’s one of the main reasons for the low marriage rate in black America–but no one will admit it because it would shine a spotlight on the lies that feminists told black women about the sexual revolution and the women’s movement.
All the so-called sexual revolution did was make sure the kind of men who were getting lots of pussy, got all the pussy they could stand, while insuring that the men who had to work for it got screwed. Back in the day, there were limits on how much pussy a man could run through–no matter how popular he was with the ladies. Dudes knew to leave some pussy on the table and not gorge themselves–that shyt was hazardous to your health. Families let it be known that they didn’t want their daughter’s virtue ruined by the crank of some Lothario. Even if she was trying to give the pussy away. That’s how you handle those alphas who want to bang everything walking and have you raise their offspring. HOT LEAD.
But women’s liberation meant that a woman’s family no longer had any say in her romantic life or the kind of men she found attractive or slept with . Women were now free to bang themselves into exhaustion during their 20’s and early 30’s and then “settle down” with a nice guy after they had their fun. Unless, of course, the woman was from a well-heeled family. Those folks are still arranging marriages but they just don’t call them arranged anymore. You’ll be hard-pressed to find any wealthy women from a family with old money hooked up with a blue collar alpha unless he’s an actor/entertainer or a professional athlete.
Somehow those women always seem to find the steady Eddie types, even during their wild carefree carousel riding days. However, women like Facebook COO Sheryl Sandberg encourages the women without trust funds to slut it up and date them all–even the no goodnicks out here who only specialize in pump and dump. Any sane person can see that her advice is hot garbage and any woman who isn’t a world class beauty with a ton of cash, would be foolish to even consider accepting it.
Despite what Sheryl Sandberg says, there ain’t gonna be no line of good men waiting for the majority of women after they’ve “sown their wild oats”. That’s some bullshyt. It’s especially true for black women, who often have to face stiff competition for the most desirable black men in the first place. You’d think that there would be a movement among black women that would preach doing the exact OPPOSITE of what the mainstream is doing. That would mean NO out of wedlock kids. No long list of sexual partners. No overweight black women who could play middle linebacker for the Giants. No black women who can’t cook or run a household. No black women wearing fake hair. No loud talking black women who you can hear from three city blocks away. No black women who give thugs the time of day. But asking black women to even consider anything on that short list will result in you getting cussed out. Unless you’re a white cat, then they’ll agree with you and ask you out on a date.
Most cats who aren’t down with being thugs or thirsty simpletons have either gone “Ghost” or they have found women from other ethnic groups to build lives and families with. They’re not sitting around waiting on black women to get tired of thugs–there are billions of women out here and the world is much bigger place than just the USA and Europe. .
But I don’t expect these modern day women to use logic or common sense. Any shyster can come along and scream about the evils of the double standard and patriarchy and they can literally empty the wallets of most of these modern day females.
As noted above, this Meeks guy isn’t even married to a black woman. So why assume that it’s black women who are the main ones panting after him? I don’t see any evidence about which race is sending him bail money, so why single out black women?
But dude is good looking, no doubt. I highly doubt if he were ugly or even regular looking would anyone care. Just see how much his friends who were arrested with him have collected. So, pretty people can get away with stuff the rest of us mere mortals cannot. Who here is surprised?
@ 6
About 10 days back. I’m a cracker so not sure if that counts.
The comments by women on the police dept. Facebook page about this guy make me embarrassed to be a woman! Stupid, stupid, stupid to go for a man like that no matter what he looks like…
Hamsterization Field Report
Remember those two women I wrote about who were sexualizing by talking about not wearing panties? I told one of them how old I was and she was surprised and said that I moved like I was 20 years younger. Heh She hamsterized my age to upqualify me. (Bloom, that means that she answered her own objection regarding my age.) It also put me in range for her hottie friend. Looks didn’t matter. Age didn’t matter. The women saw me approach women to ask them to dance, get refused sometimes, but keep asking others anyway. They figured out that I was cold-approaching. What did they see? Confidence!
Ton, maybe confidence is the real tingle generator. It shows up in men at sporting events like you described as well as when cold-approaching.
You are correct that beautiful women sometimes don’t get approached much–especially if they don’t go to clubs. Men disqualify themselves and don’t approach.
There will no doubt be Black Women reading this in this here forum, who will plead that no cultured, educated and intelligent Black Woman would be seen dead with the likes of rabble like Mr. Meeks
You rang, LOL? As I know that you well know, I already said my part about how disgusting this whole convict crush foolishness is.
One thing I did not say however, was that “no cultured, educated and intelligent Black Woman would be seen dead with the likes of rabble like Mr. Meeks.”
And I won’t say it. Because I know better. Have a good day, O.
http://lovingintheruins.wordpress.com/2014/06/21/female-inanity-on-display/comment-page-2/
Ms. Elspeth is referring to her blog Loving In The Ruins, where over the weekend she posted a brief series of remarks entitled “Female Insanity on Display”. At present the post has garnered some 240 comments…with no sign ofletting up anytime soon.
If you have the time, go and read the comments. Especially those by the Churched Ladies. Quite illuminating.
O.
http://obsidianraw.bravejournal.com/entry/107458
A previous post by yours truly that goes under “suggested further reading” given today’s topic…
O.
Although I didn’t include it in the original post I think it important to note here as the first comment.
In Champ’s post on Mr. Meeks, he attempts to make an equivalence, citing YouTube personality Mizz Twerksum and how he and other Black Men liking to watch her twerk in varying locales (similar to Ms. Carmel Kitten, of “Twerkin’ at the Wal-Mart” fame) not meaning much in the overall scheme of things to tens of thousands of Black (and other!) Women liking Mr. Meeks; in other words, “Men do it too!” and “It’ ain’t that deep”.
But there are two very wrong things with this line of argument:
1. The argument presumes that both Black Men and Black Women are both candid with their attraction triggers
2. A cigar is just a cigar.
As I’ve noted above and in the linked commentary on Ms. Rihanna, also made over a Very Smart Brothas a few weeks back, “Beauty” is NOT skin deep; it is the outward manifestation of concealed reproductive bennies, which is true for both sexes. The reason why Ms. Rihanna is one of the most commercially successful pop divas in the history of the genre, and why convicted felon Mr. Meeks is now having Women across the country raise money for his bail to the tune of $100K USD, are testaments to this fact, expressed in straight up hard currency.
Beauty, literally, pays.
Moreover, what gets Black Men, and by extension any Man’s, motor running has never been opaque; one reason why the beauty business is larger than the budget for the Pentagon, is precisely because of just how aware and attuned Women are to this.
Black Men and Men in general on the other hand, have never had such clear and present evidence of exactly what Women most desired in Men historically. For one thing, Women’s desires weren’t studied in any rigorous or academic way until very recently in human history – the Science of Human Mating is, depending on where you start (Kinsey, Masters & Johnson, etc.), not even a century old. EvoPsych in this regard is barely three decades old.
Add to this the fact that our culture and society, expressed by our parents, teachers, Hollywood messaging and the like, have inculcated our Men and boys with notions not just of what a Man should be, but of what Women can and should like in a Man in a romantic and sexual context – notions that have been proven ruinously false by the ever-emerging scientific evidence and as well, news reports like the ones we’re discussing in this forum. Simply put, while only those who are the most ideologically blinkered or emotionally hurt (Black) Women would claim ignorance and/or disapproval of what turns (Black) Men on, (Black) Men have always looked through a glass darkly, as to what precisely, does it for (Black) Women – on top of being told what they really want by society.
But with the advent of the Internet, Men are quickly gaining ground. More and more Men are learning exactly what it is that turns Women on in a systemic, step by step way. Hence, GAME.
Just wanted to add that to the pot. Let the games begin!
O.
Menelik Charles 5:48am Jun 22
Why Black women love Jeremy Meek and why Black men hate him….
Daily we witness the almost malicious promotion, and elevation, of bi-racial and ‘barely black’ females over their darker-skinned counterparts, by rappers, RnB artists, and by countless Black males on social networking sites. The problem here, however, is not so much personal preference but the veiled promotion of white beauty standards by Black men in all walks of life.
The unavoidable consequences of this internalized white supremacy (or colorism) on the self-esteem of Black girls and women have been measurable by the manner in which they express their excruciating self-loathing by way of horrible attitudes, hateful behaviour, and horse-hair heads.
There is already much bitterness between Black men and women but this issue of Black male colorism (inherited, it has to be said, mostly from mothers during their childhood, and reinforced by the white mainstream mass media during this impressionable phase of their lives) and its consequent marginalization of Black females, is a wound so deep as to be barely capable of healing. Thus, any discussion on the matter, whatever its context, will most likely result in anger and recrimination, and thus only deepen this enduring sense of inferiority on the part of the Black female.
However, colorism, as it impacts upon Black women, is nothing if not about the lack of mainstream representation, appreciation, and self-esteem. Therefore, the increased representation of darker-skinned sisters, the greater grows their collective self-esteem.
It makes sense.
So, in this respect, it has been a jolly good year for the sisters…first there was the international emergence of the devastatingly beautiful, dark-skinned, Lupito Nyong’o’, and now comes the honey-hued whore-maker, Jeremy Meeks!
Both have attracted the attention of Black males and females in equal measure, but for entirely different reasons. The former is universally celebrated for what she is: a thoroughly disarming chocolate-skinned charmer. While the latter, has all the gravitas of an ‘A-list’ movie star. In other words, he makes ladies wet without water, and cum without asking! He may need money for bail but he sure-as-hell doesn’t need it to get the babes!
The boy’s a star. He’s also a stereotypical ‘thug’!
Black men are furious! Jeremy Meeks makes them weep! He’s the self-proclaimed ‘good’ Black man’s worst nightmare: a light-skinned thug with ‘pretty eyes’ … a male version of the females they typically salivate over, and elevate overs sisters of a darker hue!
And don’t the gleeful sisters know it lol Facebook forums have been have been over-run with them teasing and terrorizing brothers with their thinly disguised lust for this Meeks man who will inherit their pussies, and make the earth move for them …never mind inherit it!
So while I concede that criticisms of sisters seeming liking for ‘thug love’ over love with allegedly ‘good’ Black men have been more than justified, a part of me (the part which exclusively depicts, and celebrates in poetry, chocolate-skinned sisters) is on the side of the sisters who’ve watched every variety of woman replace them as romantic leads in movies, on TV, music videos, and in even Black men’s adult magazines. This represent both an attack and a betrayal of Black women by the very Black males who could make a difference but don’t.
So as far as I’m concerned, the meteoric rise of Jeremy Meeks is Karma for coons who haven’t a clue WHO (typically their mothers) and WHAT (white supremacy) determines their alleged preference for barely-black females. To begin to resolve this matter, however, both Black males and females have to acknowledge the existence of an unholy alliance between the head of the Black family, and the head of white supremacy, and how they both conspire to divide us by color (within our own families) and, therefore, keep the next generation of Black men and women at each other’s throats.
The meek will not inherit the earth!
(c) Menelik Charles.
My guess is that because modern Western culture shames masculinity in Men, the only masculine men are the unschooled (who never really got the socialization) and the thuggish (who openly reject it.) As far as I can tell, it didn’t used to be this way; good guys were taught to be masculine, and this masculine demeanor generated tingles in girls the way Women with a nice hairdo and a good dress would generate tingles in Men.
Then Feminism came along and deemed all masculinity hateful and evil. Men were now taught merely to serve Women as their providers and protectors, while Women could do whatever they wanted. The feminists called this model a “new masculinity” or a “changing definition of masculinity,” and they often discuss it like it was just nature taking its course. With masculinity shamed out of the good guys, the only masculine men left were the rough-and-ready gangstas.
Hence female attraction to bad boys and cads.
It’s like that one saying about gun rights: if you outlaw the guns, only outlaws will have them. Likewise, if you shame masculinity, only the shameful will have it.
And the shameful are rolling in pussy right now.
Is it really “white supremacy”, or is it just conforming and partaking in majority popular culture?
We see the same dynamic with lots of white guys taking on the popular culture image and lingo of black rappers and sports stars.
This isn’t a “supremacy” issue (white or black) as much as it is a popular culture and image issue.
Mr O. .. by all accounts, he exhibits qualities of high genetic quality. And therefore, represents good mating material.
Speaking of heritable factors, I thought the name rang a tiny sinister bell of hate for me. One reason I didn’t die half a century ago is my shoulderblade stopped Gary Meek’s (usual alt. sp. here) stiletto and my heart remained unblemished until girls got ahold of it. High school. In the classroom. I’d actually always got on with the kid, he never could come up with a reason, just “felt like it”.
But one thing we do know (me, brothers, dad, grandad, uncles &c.), because nobody has moved much for generations, is that all men fundamentally take after the nature of their fathers and grandfathers, frequently in looks as well. And it can be channelled one way or the other by their raising. Occasionally one may take more after his mother’s people.
Recorded in the spellings of Meek, Meeke, and the patronymics Meeks and Meekes, this is an Anglo-Scottish surname. It is medieval, and a nickname surname for a gentle or self-effacing person deriving from the pre 7th century word “meek” or the Old Norse “mjukr” meaning “humble” or “meek”. However given the robust humour of the Middle Ages it must be considered that the name may have a reverse meaning, and the nameholders could have been the opposite of “meek”.
Yep, sounds about right, typical normano-viking bye-name “humor”.
Bad blood.
Fanny magnet.
Lucky for all of us the authorities have pretty much extirpated the practice of “the unblessed hand”. Especially lucky for the lovelorn ladies and the various Mr Meeks of the world.
I can make the same observations about white women going out with the white guys who act black, but such desires are really just a reflection of the popular youth culture and isn’t really race related at all.
Hmmmm…
Their blatant lies and hypocrisy are being recognized by more and more men these days and it gives me both the chuckles and the bubbleguts. It’s quite entertaining to call them on their behavior and then laugh at their predictable hamstering.
@16
Likewise, if you shame masculinity, only the shameful will have it.
And the shameful are rolling in pussy right now.
Great, ain’t it?
Of course all that is thrown into a cocked hat if he only has his mother’s name lol.
Disregard that, hypothesis sucks donkey eggs.
#6 I agree with what you wrote but I have to ask re: “That’s one of the main reasons for the low marriage rate in black America”.
What is another reason?
There is not a good masculinity that is attractive to women apart from the bad masculinity.
Women want what they want, and they’ll live in squalor to get it. Which I think points to their inherent weakness as people.
Men are fool enough to give women what they want and they’ll create squalor to give it. Which points to their inherent weakness as people.
Personally I can’t imagine ever choosing women over indoor plumbing, or electricity. Gina tingles must be more addictive than Morphine.
#7 re: pretty people. Women treat good looking men as gods. Men treat good looking women as dumb blondes. The halo effect really only operates on women treating good-looking men better.
To expand on what Ms. Elspeth said about how the subject-at-hand could’ve been a model – he still could be. As a Christian, I believe in, and am proof of, redemption and second chances at life. As Bugsy Siegel once said after making one of his confidants crawl on the floor and oink like a pig, “We all need a fresh start.” Then the attention would be warranted. Until then, it’s as creepy as it is unsurprising that the snowflakes are swooning over him.
It never was a surprise to men that women throw their panties at the guy on stage. The surprise is that women *still* become angry when their denials are pointed out.
#24 good points, but I need some time to cogitate on the symplectic aspect.
There are *recent* photos of Meeks smoking and drinking and posing with his arms around various women, mostly younger white women. Almost all of the funds raised so far have been contributed by women, but there is no racial breakdown on contributors. His sister says he used to be badder, and was better looking back then. His mom, btw, Katherine Angier, is white.
Women becoming married to criminals is extremely common. Men becoming married to criminals is extremely uncommon.
And Meek’s teen niece is also apparently an extremely vocal online supporter. So far, only women are actually supporting. Like any alpha.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2663696/Sorry-ladies-hes-taken-Ridiculously-photogenic-felon-social-media-swoon-reveals-hes-MARRIED-insists-hes-left-gang-life-behind.html
As a lifelong and still-current Northside Gangsta Crip member credited with a murder, his “business” activities are shady at best. His current arrest, June 2014, was for suspicious activities during a drug bust of a crack house he was in. A search of his vehicle turned up drugs, for which he wasn’t charged, and the weapons violations, for which he was charged.
His most recent prior arrest was two months ago, in April 2014, for resisting arrest for fleeing on foot from a group engaged in drug selling. He was also present during a domestic altercation call in 2014 and his statement taken, but not charged.
“This isn’t a “supremacy” issue (white or black) as much as it is a popular culture and image issue.”
SGT Ted, you make a valid point but popular culture and the images deemed as popular or cool, have certain gatekeepers and those cats tend to be suit wearing corporate types, who ain’t “alphas” and they darn sure ain’t black. It is what it is and to ignore the part that those white cats play in the shitstorm that is modern day society is pure folly. They make it possible for IDIOTS and HACKS to become filthy rich without possessing one iota of talent.
Who are the cats that greenlight reality tv shows and movies starring Adam Sandler? Are they black, latino and asian men? NOPE. Those offices and those suites are occupied by white dudes. Who owns the most stock in those media companies? Again, the majority of the stockholders are white cats.
Why is there this reluctance to hold those white dudes accountable? Face facts: Y’all need to clean house. The majority of the phuckery going on today in popular culture would vanish overnight if y’all would hold those white men accountable for their actions. Those lowest common denominator hucksters–the ones that like to promote schlock and ratchetry, need to be hanging with Jimmy Hoffa. They need their asses kicked. HARD.
But instead, the majority of the blame will be placed on the doofus rapper from the hood with a mouth filled with gold teeth and not the suit wearing Ivy league puppetmaster who made it possible for that doofus to be on tv and in living rooms across the nation. Those rappers wouldn’t have an audience in the first place if the big corporations didn’t promote, push and hype those idiots. They would be changing oil in a Jiffy Lube somewhere.
@29
Yes, a woman who is a criminal contributes nothing to a man’s life by virtue of being a criminal. In fact being a criminal, or even reformed criminal compromises her otherwise desirable attributes.
Remember Caesar’s must be beyond reproach. Not the other way round.
@31
Are you saying audience bares no responsibility?
If such material didn’t generate revenue there wouldn’t be any. Or least it would be obscure and marginal like literary poetry is today.
That’s not to say I disagree with you “cleaning house” point. I agree whole heartedly.
But let me ask you this. How much of this sub-culture you object to a manifestation of pressure to not “act white?”
Who are the cats that greenlight reality tv shows and movies starring Adam Sandler? Guys who know they can make money off of his movies and those trashy reality shows that women watch.
Are they black, latino and asian men? NOPE. Those offices and those suites are occupied by white dudes. Who owns the most stock in those media companies? Again, the majority of the stockholders are white cats.
So what? What’s wrong with white people freely investing their money where they think they will make more money? Because thats what is really going on.
Why is there this reluctance to hold those white dudes accountable? Face facts: Y’all need to clean house.
It is not my job to hold anybody else accountable or clean house for unproven assertions of racial crimes. In a free country, any dude is free to make crap and the market; IOW lots of other people making free choices, decide what sinks or swims. I think most pop culture is trash and I don’t partake, but who the phuck am I to tell others what they are to like or dislike?
Your notions of “cleaning house and holding people accountable” for the market choices of others is a merely a call for totalitarian solutions for the problems of freedom of choice in the market and is a cure that is worse than the disease. Besides, it ain’t “my house” to begin with.
Just like it is none of my business how you live YOUR life, absent any lawbreaking it is none of my business how they run their companies.
There is no majority white group making these decisions in a conscious manner that you seem to presume exists. They are simply selling shit because it makes them money. People watch their shit because they want to, including non-white people. They’ll happily sell any crap, regardless of who produces it. If the crap doesn’t sell, they get rid of it and try new crap.
It isn’t a function of race, its a function of market forces and other peoples free choices. And when the majority is no longer white, the market will reflect the choices of those people. And they will be just as crappy as the choices being made that lead white executives to promote the crap we have today.
And I am sad to say that I find your ‘tude to be a tad racist in it’s assumptions as to white majority culture.
Also, it is the overall demand for crap that drives the market, not the market promoting crap and fooling people into watching it.
“Oh, he’s rough and dangerous, but he would never hurt me” – says woman with a black eye and bruising around the wrists.
Gotta say, I read the title and thought of the boondocks and thuglicios. Personally, I prefer the trial of R Kelly. “I’m little, Gary Colman’s little, Mini me’s little. And to my knowledge, we all avoid getting pissed on. I see pee coming I move. She saw pee coming, she stayed. Now why should I miss out on the next R Kelly album just for that?!”
“I agree with what you wrote but I have to ask re: “That’s one of the main reasons for the low marriage rate in black America”.
What is another reason?”
jf12 Another reason for the low marriage rates in black America is that black women now believe that having a high body count isn’t a bad thing. They actually believe that having as many sex partners as humanly possible isn’t a minus but a plus. Show me a man who marries a woman who has boinked half the town and I’ll show you a man from another town.
Quiet as it’s kept, the majority of sane black men aren’t rushing to marry women who have had Lexington Steele, Mr. Marcus or any other well-endowed porn star in their beds. Will some black men have sex with that woman? Of course, but they sure as hell won’t marry her.
But black women have bought into the sexual revolution hype hook, line and sinker, despite their plummeting marriage rates. Ask yourself when’s the last time you heard a black woman talk about keeping her virginity until marriage? When is the last time you heard a black woman talk about limiting the number of men she sleeps with? Do those black women exist? Where are they?
Statistics say that they must be out here but the numbers are about the size of a flea’s condom. A sizable chunk of black women have embraced hedonism to the nth degree and have no problem lusting after and bedding down with the scourges of society. They engage in behavior that would shock the average pimp.
Ask them to sleep with fewer men and they’ll tell you that men sleep with as many women as they can and if men can do it, women can do it, too. Now, when these same ladies find it harder to garner the attention of the thugs and bad boys, suddenly they want to find a “good man” to marry.
Are you willing to pay $300,000 dollars to own a used Honda Accord? Probably not and there ain’t no line of good man waiting to marry no woman with more mileage on her Vay Jay-Jay than a Greyhound bus.
You can only feel sorry for folks who are actual victims, not the people who blindly rush headfirst into danger after being advised not to do so. Until black women decide to swing the pendulum back towards MODESTY and reject the hedonistic lifestyle feminism promotes and embrace the role of wife and mother–ain’t nothing gonna change.
As shown over at Elspeth’s, this topic touches a nerve with both men and women. For women, it sure must be embarrassing, being the self-described enlightened gender, to actively salivate for men that are antithical to civilization.
#37 re: “Another reason for the low marriage rates in black America is that black women now believe that having a high body count isn’t a bad thing. They actually believe that having as many sex partners as humanly possible isn’t a minus but a plus. Show me a man who marries a woman who has boinked half the town and I’ll show you a man from another town.”
Yeah, you’re right. Although it tends to be the loose sex that causes the multiple rugrats from various babydaddies, you’re right that having “multiple kids by multiple dudes” is one reason, and the high N count is indeed another reason.
I say that from a bizarrely advantageous viewpoint of being deep in the world and trying not to be of the world. A large number of the women I wouldn’t touch with my ten-foot pole include women who have been serially monogamous, e.g. having five kids from seven “boyfriends” through their teens and twenties. These women think they have NOT been slutting it around, and having children is one way they justify the “meaningfulness” of their prior relationship with a man.
“Oh, he’s rough and dangerous, but he would never hurt me” – says woman with a black eye and bruising around the wrists.
“That is not really being hurt because I can still have sex with him”
#37 re: mileage. Lol. At one time I calculated the typical miles of p for a sexually active woman (e.g. averaging one good ride per day). I remember it’s about a mile per month as a nice round figure.
Oh,..Obsidian, it’s not like the precedent hadn’t been set before this guy showed…
http://www.buzzfeed.com/mjs538/horrible-reactions-to-chris-brown-at-the-grammys
See, it’s not just black women who get off on the criminal vibe.
If you wanna look at all of the tweets this is a good collection:
https://twitter.com/beatmebreezy
In fact, you don’t necessarily need to be black to get a jailhouse fan club going:
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/05/15/dzhokhar-tsarnaev-fan-club-teen-girl-following_n_3275653.html
#16 “Then Feminism came along and deemed all masculinity hateful and evil.”
Correct.
“this masculine demeanor generated tingles in girls the way Women with a nice hairdo and a good dress would generate tingles in Men.”
Incorrect. It is, unfortunately, specifically the *badness*, or potential for it,that generates the tingles. Captain America is objectively a LOT more masculine than Iron Man, but his goodness de-tingles.
The Preparation Hypothesis, unfortunately, explains lubrication and submission and tingle-generation evo-psychically (B bait again in wordplay) as being easier to achieve by a *bad* man from whom the woman fears violence. NOT masculine goodness.
Rollo’s links could keep going and going. I’d like them to continue. In fact, to offset the hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of links we could post proving that girls *prefer* bad man, I’d like to see one link, or more but I’d take one, showing that a good man gets more female attention than a bad man. And to be clear, by bad I mean bad to women: physically brutal, lying, thieving, raping, etc.
Oh heck, what’s one more right?
http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2014/06/13/wedding-bells-for-joran-van-der-sloot.html
or two,…
http://www.thelocal.no/20120618/breivik-gets-love-letters-from-16-year-old-girls
Sgt Ted..You don’t want to hold the gatekeepers of popular culture responsible but you think that me pointing out the TRUTH is racist. Tell you what: Don’t clean house. Keep letting the “free market” and “consumer demand” rule the day. Give the people what they want, right? Curious how no one “wants” PBS or Masterpiece Theatre but millions of people support Adam Sandler.
Do I get a vote? Will the market listen to me? Sandler needs to be in some furniture store–not on the big screen. There can be no “popular culture” without the support and the backing of the corporate machine. And the majority of the folks making the decisions, calling the shots and responding to market forces are WHITE. It’s the truth.
I’m old enough to remember when radio stations didn’t all play the same songs or even sound the same. Radio stations in the south did not sound like radio stations in new York or Chicago. But ClearChannel and other major corporations now own all the radio stations and those stations are cookie cutter clones and they all play and promote the same crap. That’s what your “free market” gave the public: Less choice and personality with more corporate crap polluting the air. Hey, look kids!! It’s Reaganomics!!
Now, you say that white folks are free to invest their money by giving the people what the market “demands”, while you ignore that the major corporations aren’t passive and just respond to consumer demands. That is a recipe for disaster if you’re talking about PROFITS. Those folks seek to shape and impose their will on the market, so they can MAXIMIZE their profits. Consumers are notoriously fickle supposedly, but this fuckery that’s being presented as “popular culture” hasn’t gotten any backlash?
Ain’t no way you can convince me that Miley Cyrus has a good singing voice. Cristina Gatti has more talent in her pinkie than Miley has in her whole body. She’s sexier, too but who’s famous? Cristina or Miley?
But you know what? Keep thinking that the decline in popular culture is “market driven”. Keep letting folks make tons of money no matter what the cost is to the greater society. Like it or not, there rules that all men must follow, but feel free to embrace the chaos, dude.
I work in insurance. I am nearly in tears laughing, imagining claim calls for vaginas and women.
“What do you mean this is a wear and tear issue? It wasn’t like that before we got married!”
“Well sir, since you have rental coverage, we can provide a rental for the interim your wife is in for repairs”
The best imo. “According to your policy, we are going to deny your claim on the basis that your tattoo ” Sarah luvs Teshawn” was deemed intentional act. I empathize that he left you, but the tattoo was intentional.”
@JF12:
“Become a soldier? Like you? Everything special about you came out of a bottle.”
-Tony Stark/Iron Man, “The Avengers”
Stark is Alpha all day, errday. Look at the Iron Man films, starting with the first one back in 08. Checkout his style, his Cocky Funny that he worked to perfection on the news reporter. Note how Preselction endeared Pepper Potts to him even MORE. Note how he utterly pwned Rogers in the scene quoted above – he had Rogers dumbfounded, and the only way Rogers could respond was by challenging him to a duel, to which Stark shrugged off. Stark totally AMOG’d Rogers.
Rogers is a Beta’s Beta, and the ONLY reason why he would get ANY play from the honies is due to Dr. Erskine’s “Super Soldier” formula, which of course, died with him in the comics/first Capt. America flick.
Stark is of the manner born – the scion of one of the brains behind the Manhattan Project, Howard Stark. Went to MIT at 16, graduated Summa Cum Laude. Came up with a suit of armor in a cave, a car batter plugged into his chest to keep him alive, and was ablve to get back to civilization using it – and did it all in a week. In fact, that’s my favorite line in Iron Man 1:
“Tony Stark made this in a cave – with scraps!!
Yes…but I’m not Tony Stark.”
They don’t call the flick “Iron Man and the Avengers” for nothing…
O.
PS: note also, that Downey/Stark is notably shorter and less buff than Evans/Rogers – proof, that Alphas do indeed come in all sizes…
Heheh,..oh jf12, don’t be ridiculous…
Crime pays! People with criminal records have more sex partners and more children
http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S1090513814000774
#50 Rollo,great find! Shuyang Yao of Yerkes Primate Research Center is now my new hero, willing to view human behavior with an unflinching gaze.
There don’t seem to be many chicks jumping in like at Elspeth’s with NAWALT claims and the like.
Are civilization and women’s empowerment compatible?
So much for Aunt Giggle’s assortive mating pablum.
Myth busted, boom!
#49 In my mid teens I was the slightly older leader of a neighborhood band of merry men typified by my younger brother, five years younger, supposed to keep them out of mischief, but, you know. They/we were into like reading the Avengers in tree forts and so forth, and I wanted to be Tony Stark (in real life too …but that’s another story), but I was forced to be the boss and my little brother got to be Tony Stark instead (almost in real life too …). I was Colonel Fury before Colonel Fury existed.
@53
No.
How hard does the average woman have to work to keep these urges under wraps?
#46 I haven’t gotten many adoring love letters from 16 year old girls lately. But I’ve gotten an inkling that I could if I really wanted to.
Oh aye, Kid? Hold them witeguys accountable? Who’s about to do that?
As futile as calling for Bliar to be shanghaied to The Hague.
Anyways, eight out of ten cats have got a foreskin. Unlike your mysterious Svengalis busy hoodwinking the poor benighted savages, where it’s an entirely different statistic.
Those guys sell what sells plus a fairly modest percentage, like Sgt Ted said. Any damn thing will do, after all, laws are for the guidance of wise men and the blind obedience of fools.
Just find out what the cretins go for .. ka-ching!
#57 A woman’s urges are a drop in a bucket compared to a man’s urges, but she’s not as used to constraining herself as a man is.
@57
Only as hard as the society makes her work.
@60
Men operate under numerous and burdensome restraints, and always have. Women have recently been liberated from most of the restraints they once operated under. Breaking the link between sex and babies being the biggie.
It’s kind of hard for women to refute the overwhelmingly obvious tendency for women (and almost uniquely women) to infatuate themselves with convicted criminals.
However, the first and most obvious counter to this phenomenon will be “Oh those women are neurotic / damaged / have Daddy issues (men’s fault) or are otherwise insane. No normal, healthy, well adjusted woman would ever consider hooking up / falling in love with a known murderer (of women no less), or criminal with that potential.
Well, you can thank me later ladies, but I’ve already covered this “Insanity Plea” in a post over 2 years ago. And in that time, every assertion I’ve made has only been reinforced with every new ‘incident':
http://therationalmale.com/2012/03/28/insanity-plea/
Sandler needs to be in some furniture store–not on the big screen.
Other people disagree with you. I think his early stuff was fuckin’ funny.
What you ascribe to racist conspiracy what can easily be ascribed to peoples choices between shit and shit and just plain stupidity.
Miley Cyrus isn’t the first child of another pop star to have a career solely because she is related and connected. Nor is based on race. Will Smiths kids come to mind. Muhammed Ali’s daughter comes to mind. Any child of anybody connected and already set has advantages that regular folks don’t have in the entertainment industry. Again, race has nothing to do with it. Its about money and the power that it buys.
It ain’t race so much as it’s just “who you know and who you blow”. The talent shows such as The Voice and American Idol are very revealing as to the immense amount of talent that is unseen and unheard.
If you want to say it’s corrupt, I can agree with that, but wanting outsiders, such as government or a mob of citizens assuming some sort of moral authority to come “clean house” is just advocating for a different type of corruption, which solves nothing.
Pointing fingers at race is to blame the wrong things for the symptoms we see.
Iron Man isn’t beta? Iron Man 3, nuff said.
Keep thinking that the decline in popular culture is “market driven”. Keep letting folks make tons of money no matter what the cost is to the greater society.
Well, if I were to agree with your assertions, how would we hold these guys accountable? What mechanism would we use to do so? What tools would be appropriate given our laws and Constitution that would actually work? Can you give me any examples?
@ 10
Yea Gamer, confidence creates tingles, so does humor and a goodly long list. I’m not referring to the kind of tingles that peaks a girl’s interests but the primal kind that puts her in autopilot. Make sense?
@ 31 that would be Jews, not Whites.
I don’t think women should be embarrassed at the behavior of other women. They should police the herd but we should only be embarrassed @ our own actions/ inactions….. inactions…… women have enough to be embarrassed about on the inaction of policing the herd.
@Lone Planet:
Iron Man 3? You mean the same Iron Man 3 that opens with Stark macking it something fierce in 1999?
Really?
O.
@63
In the past it was possible for the betas to claim some of that status by banding together to deal with local thugs in extra-legal ways. Today such activities are precluded by law. The beta’s greatest weakness is obedience to rules and hierarchy. Woe be to the world when charismatic leaders rally the betas to a new paradigm.
#61 best possible answer. Then civilization IS the forcing of women to constrain their sexuality. Not just a product or side effect.
So let me amend the definition of civilization that I learned in fifth grade, “Civilization is a society that has made significant advances in the arts and sciences, and has furthermore effectively restrained hypergamy”
#4 @possum
Excellent. Just excellent. Still got it round these parts!
Obsidian
Plenty of White, Latina, Asian, Desi, Native American women like light skinned black men or mulatto men like Jeremy Meeks. It’s not only the Black women who do this. When I was in the U.S. Army, I noticed light skinned Black men getting more action from ladies of any race especially from Black ladies than their darker hued men of their own race. Women of any race like good looking men period. Susan Walsh showed in one of her articles before she went purple pill how in a study how college men found 80% of college women physically attractive based on pictures while college women only found 20% of college men to be physically attractive based on pictures. College women found 80% of the men to be unattractive. These college women had stronger desire for the top 5% of men than these college men had for the top 5% of women too.
Delusion Damage explicitly and directly advised men to learn martial arts because women respect men who can defend themselves, their romantic women partners, and their children more than men who can provide for them. I have not read everything in the world Obsidian has written. Obsidian in the past was more subtle and indirect about martial arts helping men get the women they want and the numbers of women along with the kinds of sex acts they want. Obsidian has been moving in the direction of being more direct and explicit about men learning martial arts in order to get good at game. This is good to read. It can not be emphasized enough. The fact is since can now make their own money for provisioning either working for private companies or government and if failing that then collecting welfare from the government(if they give birth to children) then women really don’t need men for provisioning now as much in the past hence it is by far less respected which means that protection(thug loving) is much more respected and wanted by women than provisioning. It was quite a shock to learn this slowly in my teens and more quickly in my 20s, and like Obsidian, I was born in 1968, which means we learned the hard way through observation and painful experience as there was no internet and manosphere to tell the truth about women back then and only mainstream media, teachers, parents etc. to spout lying propoganda. A man of my father’s generation had a good chance to find a wife who considered good provisioning skills sexy and a man of my grandfathers’ generation even more so in this regard. Women of my generation wanted thugs and/or charming cad players more than dull dependable provisioning men despite their lies to the contrary. I know the young 20 something and teen something ladies are no better than the ladies of my generation over 20 years ago and now. All I got to say is this: actions, that is to say you ladies ejaculating men’s penises, speak louder than words.
So as men you can either learn pretty it up, charm it up or thug it up. Which do you think is easiest to do? I say thug it up is easiest followed by charming it up and last is pretty it up. Why? It is easier to lift weights to get strong, run or swim to get better at being fast and have better lung/wind/endurance power, and martial arts to develop skills as a fighter. You are more certain of success if you stay with it even though you may never be a professional fighter let alone champion of the world than to learn GAME by approaching women. The path is more laid out, easier to follow and certain for you to be successful if you keep trying than trying to charm it up and learn GAME. In addition it gives you more confidence because few men are either able or more likely willing to endure the years it takes to become proficient at martial arts and you will have more confidence because you know you could kill most other men with your bare hands if you wanted to which women find attractive. I believe it works for both Vox Day and Obsidian plus Obsidian called martial arts the sweet science a few articles back. The reason for learning martial arts or being a thug works is because women subconsciously know you can destroy all competition to her and her offspring. Men with the proven quality of being able to inflict much more violence on others while being able to guard against it against themselves and their protected ones are like the mirror image of a man wanting a beautiful woman woman because subconsciously he assumes her womb is healthier to sire offspring inside. Charm and GAME can get you further with women than a strong body and excellent fighting skills, but it is easier to learn and do the latter for most men than the former, and while one or the other can be sufficient in and of itself, both put together has at least the multiplying effect to the 3rd power if not more. A man also has more control of being Charming and being good at GAME than prettying it up. Why? Although a man can get a better body and style if one works it, there are genetic limitations. Some people are born to be handsome or pretty, others average looking and still others downright physically ugly no matter what they do.
@ Kid 47
Y’all need to quit playin’ da ebil whitey card. It’s getting old.
@70
Not exclusively, but women can’t be freed of restraint and/or expectation and expect the toilets to flush reliably for all time.
Civilization is therefore a restraint on hypergamy, and male lust but women benefit from the reduction in forcible rape and men benefit from the reduction in lethal violence. And we get flush toilets. Win. Win. Win.
Somebody should link it.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uw04NfoYKB8
What is not considered is the difference in attitudes of the times that these characters grew up in. Tony Stark grew up in the modern culture where there are no heroes, no male role models, no exemplars. Captain America is a product of the thirties and forties. That goes a long way to explaining why Tony Stark is so cynical and Captain America is so idealistic.
SGT Ted I grew up in the lowcountry of South Carolina–not too far from Paris Island. Mt grandfather had a life long friend named Jacob who was white and by today’s definitions would be considered a “red neck”. His family owned a small general store and he also did carpentry work. His eldest son was killed in “Nam and was a Marine. His photo was front and center in their store. The two other boys, Adam and David worked at the store and helped their dad with carpentry. The other three girls were married and living in other parts of South Carolina–mainly upstate near Edgefield , Senator Strom Thurmond’s stomping grounds.
The youngest daughter, Earnestine was running the general store and she was a rare beauty. She was all legs and curly blonde hair and dimples–with a smile that could melt the polar ice caps. She also always smelled like bubblegum and for me that made her the perfect woman. I was eight when I told her that we should get married.
It was only logical: She was the prettiest girl in town, her dad owned a store with two spinner racks filled with comic books, I loved comic books and I loved her and she always kissed and hugged me every time I came to the store to buy comic books and candy..It was a match made in heaven.
Of course, Earnestine laughed and her mother laughed and Mr Jacob laughed so hard that his belly shock. But he told me that when I could see over the counter, that he would give me his blessing. Earnestine kissed me, like 5000 times it seemed and I was one happy eight year old kid.
Mr Jacob drove me back to my grandfather’s house, placing my beat up Western Flyer in the back of his pick-up and he told my grandfather what happened and they both laughed for what seemed like hours.
About a year and a half later, all hell broke loose. Earnestine’s brothers beat the brakes off of a rich cat in the parking lot of the Big Star supermarket. He was dating her and got her pregnant, but he told her to “get rid of it”. He also dropped her like a bad habit and made a public spectacle about it. You didn’t do that kind of thing in these parts back in the day without getting your head beat in.
The sheriff was called and Mr Jacob’s sons were locked up and when I say LOCKED up, it looked like half the law enforcement agencies in the state were called. The rich cad’s family went on the warpath and they literally crushed Mr Jacob’s family.
The two sons never recovered–they pretty much drank themselves to death and were always getting into trouble with the law. The general store was eventually closed because the county kept widening the highway. Right up to the front door of the little store. It was like they wanted to have an interstate highway right there all of a sudden after years of not being willing to even pave the road.
Earnestine went to live with one of her sisters upstate and she did get married(she was still fine as a mofo) but Mr Jacob and his wife stayed here until they were retirement age. Selling produce on the side of the road. Setting up a booth to sell homemade cookies, cotton candy and candy apples at the fair when the fair came to town. But the carpentry work dried up. If you saw Mr Jacob working somewhere, you can best believe that he wasn’t in charge–despite being a master carpenter. Everything he ever built for my grandfather is still standing. They were treated like DIRT and all because some rich family objected to their snot nosed son getting his behind kicked.
Eventually, someone punched his ticket because he went “missing” and they found his 1958 Caddy abandoned near Goose Creek SC around 1984 or 1986. Ain’t nobody seen hide nor hair of him since. Now, maybe he’s in Argentina, sipping pina coladas with Adolf but I doubt it.
Long story short(I know–too late), folks who love and worship money to the point where they are willing to wreak havoc in the larger society have to be reigned in. You can regulate behavior. Schlock peddlers should encounter the kind of scorn that pedophiles get. They’re just as dangerous as pedophiles are and should be treated as PARIAHS.
What good is a billion dollars to a man stranded on a deserted island?
Civilization is therefore a restraint on hypergamy, and male lust but women benefit from the reduction in forcible rape and men benefit from the reduction in lethal violence. And we get flush toilets. Win. Win. Win.
Tingles Uber Alles
The only “win” that matters.
Rollo Tomassi
You said a lot of what I said in post 73 before I read your comments on post 63. Post 50 with the link was pure gold slyly agreeing with jf12. Keep this in mind, everyone reading this. A man of violence, especially a criminal, is a law unto himself and more women than you know or want to know find this sexy, attractive and desirable. Thug and criminal men have even more children and sex partners than men who are military personnel, police officers and corrections officers in my opinion too.
Not to make any Beta even more depressed, but I read this today and couldn’t help but see how the Sandberg ‘open hypergamy’ model is only going to aggravate more and more unplugged / red pill aware Betas:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/lifestyle/style/carolyn-hax/2014/04/18/898e82ce-b9bb-11e3-9a05-c739f29ccb08_story.html
Think about how disenfranchised that dutiful Beta is going to be when he is flat out told that he’ll never be getting the ‘sexual best’ he believed his wife would have for him.
Compare the open hypergamy model with the guy from Saving the Best:
http://therationalmale.com/2013/12/03/saving-the-best/
@ Ton 67
I understand your point just fine, but you have yet to reply to two of mine:
1) Why don’t all women who attend MMA events respond the same primal way? Maybe the ones who are super aggressive are crazies?
2) If MMA events generate autopilot tingles so much, then why don’t more women watch them and attend them?
I should add another question: Why do women prefer to watch Dancing with the Stars over MMA events?
I can strongly assure you that when beginning women dancers dance with an instructor:
1) the woman students are assuredly doing their d@mndest to please him
2) they are scared to death that he won’t enjoy dancing with them
3) they are thrilled as punch to be dancing with him
We aren’t talking minor league tingles. The fear factor is so intense that an instructor has to go to great lengths to create comfort so that the student will want to dance with him. Students–even hotties–will disqualify themselves because of fear and throw up a very tough b1tch-shield. Another guy and I worked to bring down a b1tch-shield that a woman had erected because of fear. That woman kept saying that she wouldn’t dance all the time that I was leading her onto the dance floor. She had a great time dancing with me despite her fear. And all that positive emotion attaches to the dance instructor. Fear is a primal emotion. When women experience fear but are led through it to dance despite the fear, massive tingles occur. I won’t claim that they are all set on autopilot, but some seem to be.
I asked one woman student (about 30 y.o. redhead hottie) to come to the dance studio to take a lesson. She had turned her back to her bf while talking with me for 5 min. The hottie brought her bf to the studio and showed up while the lesson was going on. With everyone looking on, she grinned, jumped up and down, and clapped when she saw me. I was dancing with my wife at the time. Once the hottie figured out that I was married, she lost interest in taking lessons at the studio. She obviously had some major league tingles.
It’s easy as h3ll to get beginners to dance close with eyes closed so that they can feel the rhythm of the instructor’s steps. There is an excellent technical reason for this and trust is easy to establish. Of course, this makes escalating very easy. There’s a good reason for the popular saying not to marry fitness instructors, yoga instructors, and dance instructors. They tend to all get a lot of action.
SfcTon: “I don’t think women should be embarrassed at the behavior of other women. They should police the herd but we should only be embarrassed @ our own actions/ inactions….. inactions…… women have enough to be embarrassed about on the inaction of policing the herd.”
Been lurking around here for a relatively long time. Usually I refrain from chiming in since I don’t really feel I have anything much of value to contribute, but this topic was very thought-provoking to me.
I’m a woman, and frankly this kind of crazed fawning by women over men of questionable character, however comely, always baffles the hell out of me. Am I embarrassed by it? Yes, a little – it’s vapid and misguided, and I doubt most women even realize the driving forces behind it. It amazes me how blatantly unaware most women are of what causes them tingles.
That’s actually one those things that the manosphere made me pay attention to, even if I had kind of known it on some level – ever since I remember my female friends have rarely been able to tell exactly WHY they find someone really attractive (beyond the very obvious appearance-related things). It was weird for me to come to terms with, since I’ve always been almost freakishly introspective myself, and attraction triggers are one thing of which I’m acutely aware of most of the time. Bisexuality and a high libido probably have something to do with that.
Myself, I’m not partial to pretty thugs (nor other kinds of criminals, as a rule), but then during the years I’ve been reading the manosphere I’ve come to accept that I’m probably an outlier in many ways. Not all, by any means, but plenty enough.
And that brings me to the whole policing the herd idea. Even though I understand keenly how the behaviours of women today are causing societal disruption and sowing discord between the sexes, I frankly do not know how I could begin to communicate this to any woman except a few select friends, probably equally odd as I am. The women pining after this man in the mugshot in social media and the likes of me do not speak a common language, barely share a value system and definitely do not belong in any all-encompassing sisterhood within which said policing of the herd could be engaged in. I do not say this out of any false sense of superiority, but as a simple and quite sad truth that I have had to learn the hard way over the years.
But then, I could be just making a very elaborate excuse for why I haven’t really been doing my part…
As an aside, it would seem to me that women are actually actively discouraged from introspection or self-observation beyond a very superficial level these days. All this follow your heart, be true to yourself, slut it up for sexual empowerment (=let the tingles rule!) nonsense prompts women to take their every whim and fancy as gospel, and you needn’t (or even shouldn’t) analyse or question that which is inherently true and good, isn’t that so? So ride the carousel, make silly/stupid/downright destructive life choices, consume, consume, consume! *rolls eyes*
Then there’s this:
https://twitter.com/KirillWasHere/status/481142495913324544/photo/1
…but I’m sure she just has ‘issues’ and is an aberration of the whole, right?
Here is a summary of what I wrote above. In order to attract the ladies, it is easier to thug it up than to charm(GAME) it up which in turn is easier to pretty it up. GAME may get you further than thugging it up but it is much harder to learn.The only problem with thugging it up is getting physically harmed up to the point of death or arrested and incarcerated.
Here’s an example. Over twenty years ago I had a Latino acquaintance in college who had a younger high-school brother. Both lived with their parents in the Latino and gang infested neighborhood known as Humboldt Park in Chicago. The high-school brother was considered one of the popular males with the females of the neighborhood for his looks and (GAME) charm. One day the local gang showed up and told him to join the gang because there was no way they were going to let him be the most popular guy with the ladies in the neighborhood and not be part of the local gang. They thought gang members should be more popular with the ladies than non-gang members. He refused to join. They threatened to beat him, his college age brother and father if he didn’t join. He still refused, and one day 20 gang-bangers beat him, his college brother and father so badly that they had to be hospitalized for a week. He wasn’t as popular with the ladies of the neighborhood anymore.
Gammer, women need men to intorduce them to things like mma. Different women will have varying degrees of control. Women might watch dancing more but who do they lose control for? This also plays in with the thug factor/ bad boy game
For masculine develpment dancing is lame as lame gets. Being a dancer means you have to rely on other men behaving. Being able to brawl means you are secure in your own right.
I was born in 1970. Both my grandfathers did well as providers; both were stonecold killers and decorated for valor and lived trough the Depression. Not sure that generation is a good example to use for our purposes.
@ 77 we have stories like that in my family, but the hollers are deep.
Most martial arts are utterly worthless in a brawl.
Good thoughts, Petal.
“And that brings me to the whole policing the herd idea. Even though I understand keenly how the behaviours of women today are causing societal disruption and sowing discord between the sexes, I frankly do not know how I could begin to communicate this to any woman except a few select friends, probably equally odd as I am. The women pining after this man in the mugshot in social media and the likes of me do not speak a common language, barely share a value system and definitely do not belong in any all-encompassing sisterhood within which said policing of the herd could be engaged in. I do not say this out of any false sense of superiority, but as a simple and quite sad truth that I have had to learn the hard way over the years.”
Values are supposed to be the driving factor for policing the “herd” (and all of society really…incentives and disincentives via laws/values/social conditioning are designed to combat our inherent wickedness/evilness/weaknesses). There’s little point in tut-tutting about values to people who are unwilling to accept concepts beyond themselves and their immediate gratification.
As an aside, it would seem to me that women are actually actively discouraged from introspection or self-observation beyond a very superficial level these days.
Not only that, but they will also claim special girl powers as to being especially empathetic and more emotionally aware than men. The supremacist propaganda of the modern feminazi movement is striking in its lack of self reflection and personal knowledge. It is such claims that enable the modern perpetual adolescent mental state of most nominally adult women.
#80 All of the women commenters in Hax’s article exhibit no shame at all, and absolutely no pity for men at all. All women, apparently, are like that.
#83 short version, no man is ever going to be calling out “Olivia, darling!” at moments of heightened passion.
@Ton #85
Respectfully, I would argue that it’s not so much that “most martial arts are utterly worthless in a brawl” as it is that most people don’t receive the proper training re: the necessary mindset to survive a brawl. These days, it’s mostly point sparring B.S or that Tae-Bo shite from the 90’s.
I’m guessing that you don’t have much experience with “traditional” martial arts; but from what you’ve shared with us of your background and training, it’s obvious to me that you do possess the mindset and skillset required to fight to the death.
Off topic, I just realized that I’m the annoying younger brother (a statement my sister would wholeheartedly agree with) ’round these parts. Born in 1975.
#51 my mistake, the last author Hasse Walum is the one at Yerkes.
@80,88
If you ain’t her first expect her worst.
I think a lot of this stems from that real life heroes don’t get any press. They’re deliberately overlooked by the feminist controlled main stream media. In their absense, what are women exposed to but bad examples of masculinity?
I’m not sure who’s more damaged, women being programmed to lust after these thugs, or men, who sees the thug’s success.
In this time, Captain America might well choose to be celibate.
#90: Do you wrestle, Sumo, as your handle kind of hints?
@93
Consider also that the word hero has been so debased in the culture as to have no meaning whatsoever. Just showing up and doing the expected is now heroic.
[…] “Be handsome. Be attractive. Don’t be unattractive.” -Tina Fey, “Saturday Night Live” (aka “The Tom Brady Rule”) By now, surely you have heard of convicted felon and global heart throb Stockon, CA’s own Mr. […]
@ Ton 85
Gammer, women need men to intorduce them to things like mma.
I don’t see why. MMA is on TV. If MMA is so hot for women, news about it would spread like wildfire when women gossip.
Different women will have varying degrees of control. Women might watch dancing more but who do they lose control for?
Which women lose control? What percent of women lose control? Why does such a small percent of women lose control at MMA events? We need more research into this.
For masculine develpment dancing is lame as lame gets.
Great question. It caused me to evaluate the benefits of dancing beyond my previous list. Dancing develops physical skill, balance, agility, spatial awareness, timing, rhythm, perception of the motion of other couples within the physical space of the dance floor, planning, physical coordination, coordination of your motion and your partner’s with the music, communication (by way of physical commands to your partner), and leadership. Dancing improves cardio fitness. Dancing develops the hips, which is part of the reason for the reputation that dancers have for being great in the sack. Dancing gives men the confidence that they need to approach women. It also can help martial art development a great deal. Dancing is not as worthless as you think for masculine development.
Adolescents are averse to dancing. Real men aren’t afraid to dance with women or afraid that people will think that they are pussies for dancing.
Again, a great question. I suspect that others have had the same question.
@Doclove:
Excellent analysis, Chitown is a case in point as to what you’re talking about. In an environment such as that one, I would advise a Man to first and foremost, get his Survival skills up to par – hand to hand combat being Job One. He4 should also be proficient with firearms, for reasons I am sure I don’t need to explain to you, and which I discuss in a following comment. Finally, he should train with the expectation that he will be facing at least three armed assailants in mind alone and most unlikely, unarmed.
My own philosophy in such scenarios is not to “win” but raather, to inflict as much damge to my opponents as possible; to make them think “why or why did we mess with THIS guy?”. “Winning” should such a thing occur, would be a by-product of the aforementioned strategy. I would also expect to take some damage myself, but would do all I could to minimize it by way of relying on my old training in Aikido and my dabbling in Parkour, ie, using the opponents bodies as my shields and using the environment around us as an aid in combat.
Now, had all three Men you described were indeed trained thusly, they would have had a much better outcome – again, they may not “win” but there would be at least as many gangbangers recovering in the hospital with them.
And thus, the ladies would still regard them as quite sexy.
Of course, because Chitown is nowadays known as “Chiraq” – a mashing together of the words “Chicago” and “Iraq” due to the extremely high homicide rate there – chances are high that the gang wouldn’t leave well enough alone, and as such the three guys we’re talking about would have to bring in some blue steel into the equation. Personally, if I had any say in the matter I would just leave the city altogether, but that’s just me, as I wouldn’t see going the distance with twobit gangbangers as being worth it.
At any rate, you make a very goood observation, which itself begs thee question:
Which is the harder to learn, and excute: Game, Self-Defence, or as you like to put it, “Prettying” oneself up? I’d say that, if we were to apply a military-style metric to all of this, a Man can be combat-ready in a matter of weeks – 12 weeks of basic at Paris Island. But Game? Let’s put it this way – I learned it inside of 90 days – and by all accounts that is very, very rare. From what I’ve read the normal learningcurve is something like at least a year, a whirlwind type of deal, six months.
As for “prettying up”: Personally, I think this is something that is relatively easy to do, assuming of course a guy isn’t woefully out of shape – and again, he can easily correct for that with the aforementioned Paris Island schedule. 3-4 months hardcore working out and PT should do the trick there, any minor cosmetic stuff can be done in that same amount of time, clothing and what not, ditto.
So, it would appear from my assessment at least, that your analysis would be correct: of them all, Game is likely to be the most time-consuming and difficult to learn.
I would love to get the fellas reading along to weigh in withtheir thoughts on this.
O.
BP: “Consider also that the word hero has been so debased in the culture as to have no meaning whatsoever. Just showing up and doing the expected is now heroic.”
This.
Also, the deconstructionist plague has laid waste to everything of value humans do.
@97
MMA won’t excite woman on TV like dancing for the following reasons:
1. MMA programming is stylized for a male audience. Joe Rogan won’t be hosting Dancing With Washed Up Celebrities.
2. Most all women have the visceral experience of dancing and can relate to it on a personal level.
3. Most women have never been in a physical fight with a man. They can’t relate.
4. Most women have never seen a fight in real life that has as much stake as an MMA bout. Drunk idiots talking smack and pushing and shoving with no possibility of real injury doesn’t generate tingles in real life.
@ O., doclove
If I’d been threatened by a gang and couldn’t leave the area, I’d be carrying and equipped with a sword cane as well. I’d go on offense before the gang did–I’d turn assassin. Gangbangers would disappear.
@Liz #94
Lol. Not exactly; when you’re a pudgy half-Japanese kid, people aren’t exactly original when bestowing a nickname upon you.
I started learning martial arts when I was 13, became an instructor when I was 22. A small part of that education dealt with grappling, but I wouldn’t claim to have any extensive knowledge of “wrestling”.
@ Badpainter 100
So your point is that MMA only has the autopilot effect in person–not when watched on TV.
It’s uncontroversial that for most women at a MMA bout, there is no autopilot effect.
What characteristic is there about a very few women that causes them to go autopilot at a MMA bout?
#98 I’m not sure about which is easiest. Ryan Gosling took two years off to work out and bulk up to be less pretty and/or more thuggish. doclove’s point about how far you can go is also relevant. It could very be that there is a basic limit to how thuggish a (nice, babyfaced) guy can get, so he can get there quickly but it doesn’t help *him* very much. And same with prettying it up; aside from a lot of surgery, the best a man can go is a kinda prettier haircut or a kinda prettier suit or what have you. But there may not be much of an upper limit on how much Game he can do.
@ 90
Sumo, I collected black belts when I was a younger man. I have 5. By 17 or so with years of wrestling and boxing I was able to smash any multi degree black belt I faced. Including some bigshot tae kwon do guy from Korea. Each said in a real fight he had some de mac death move…. Even with one lung I’ll fight any traditional martial artist. Any time, any place. Think how much training time they lose in a life time with all the non combat related bull$hit like bowing and scarping. I have 17 pro mma fights (15 wins, 2 DQ’s) 12 pro boxing matches ( 7 ko’s lost 5 decisions) and 17 for 17 in pro kick boxing. Gyms that prodcue fighters are much different then tradtional clubs.
Fighting and fighting dancing is dancing Gamer. Though most tradtional artist really are dancers
I can get any reasonably fit and motivated man combat ready in 6 weeks. The military wastes a lot of time that has nothing to do about fighting and winning.
@103
Bloodlust?
I’m not taking a position on any “autopilot effect” rather I am noting that women take a greater interest in real life when there are stakes. Watch the girls and mothers at a high school wrestling match for example. Most won’t watch that during the Olympics but love the skating.
My Grandmother was a huge boxing fan. Something about two guys wailing on each other really excited her. She even liked to watch on TV. She was not in the least impressed by common brawling.
However, Grandpa told a different story. He and his brother had a reputation and were banned from several dance halls and saloons, in several towns in Colorado and Wyoming before the war. As he explained it Grandma was impressed enough so long as he wasn’t the instigator.
Autopilot effect? I don’t know. Excitement that might be more easily converted to arousal? Definitely.
@Fuzzie:
In both the comics and films, Cap is regarded as the best unarmed combant in the Marvel Universe. Though I think Daredevil would give him a serious run for the money, andif we were to crossover into DC, the Batman, too. I also think Frank Castle would give Cap a heck of a workout. Some fans think Logan is all that, but from what I’ve read, and that’s a lot, he’s basically a brawler a al what SFC Ton talks about – but with three hugely significant edges: his mutant healing factor, his adamantium skeleton and his claws. Which pretty much makes him a tank. But he has none of the skill or finesse, of Cap or DD.
Going back to Cap: the films of the past few years show very well his combat abilities: he’s a skilled boxer, practitioner of Brazilian JiuJitsu and Parkour, and an acrobat – in these areas, he’s basically a dead match for Daredevil. DD comes up big in the area of Caporiera, Aiki-JiuJitsu and Escrima, to take advantage of his cane/billy clubs.
Of course, Cap has his shield, which has both defensive and offensive applications, due to the rare alloy of Vibranium and steel, enabling it to richochet off of surfaces as well as being able to absorb kinetic impacts up to and including hammer strikes by Thor without harming Rogers himself. Daredevil also has an abilty to “bounce” his billy clubs off of surfaces, striking opponents from behind them and so forth.
In real life, I would advise any Man just starting out in self-defence to start with Boxing, which is the easiest to learn: it’s realtively quick, cheap and you can use that as a “base” with which to build on your MMA skillset. That’s what I do: I use Boxing as the base, then add in some things I self-learned from KFM, FMA (particularly “Kali”), as I saw lots of similarity with their move sets and stances and how I could easily “chain them” into my Boxing, and then added single-stick Excrima, to take advantage of my cane. At Sumo’s suggestion I’ve been studying again, on my own, some simple Hapkido and other cane-fighting methods. Borrowing from Daredevil’s story, who lost his sight as a result of an accident, the chemicals that bombarded his brain through his eyes gave him something in return. I feel the same way about my surgery, which removed part of my foot, but which gave me something in return: a hiding in plain sight weapon that is 100% street legal. And, because of my relattively younger age for which to carry a cane in the first place, along witth a lifetime of being very active and fit, I move a lot faster than anyone would assume for a cane carrier – in fact, a tall strapping guy with dreds said just that to me as I was walking along. I simply grinned and kept it moving.
That’s another thing: you have to decide if you want to develop power or speed, or a bit of both. At 5’8″ and with a technical disability aat about 170lbs, I’ve decided to aim more for agility, speed, the element of surprise due to my appearing infirm, and precision with strikes – aiming for the joints and soft tissue of my targets. One thing I’ve learned from my study of Escrima is that if I generate enough kinetic force by twirling my cane before I strike I will inflict much more damage – and again taking another pagge from FMA, I use my off hand as a way to followup with a quick rabbit punch – hit em with the stick, move in and punch. My cane also affords me lots more reach than I culd achieve alone, and here I bring in my Boxing training to bear, working off the jab to keep assailants at bay and off balance.
When facing larger and taller opponents, my goal is to “go low”, aiming for the groin, knees, shins and ankles, then go upstairs with either my cane or fists or both in tandem. Not only can I use my cane in a short quarterstaff fashion, but also in the manner of a bayonet fixed on a rifle, putting all my Ki into “one point” on an opponent’s body. Even thoughmy cane has a rubber tip on the end, it can still hurt quite a bit, especially when applied in a quick and sharp manner to the kidney area of solar plexis, and will make even a larger Man back up – just long enough for me to deliver a punch, kick, chop, elbow or knee strike.
So it all really comes down to your own personal situation – your own body, weight, height, age, and natural gifts and weaknesses. You have to develop a self-defence system that is all your own, and you should be studying it at least a few hours a week in addition to working out. Again, grip up a heavy bag and a pair of MMA-style gloves. That’s all you really need to get started. You can use the bag for all the kinds of strikes you want to use – punches, kicks, elbows, knees, and in my case, cane. If you’re able to, spar with a partner, although in my opinion you don’t absolutely have to do this. You can be quite effective just shadowboxing.
O.
@Ton
Okaaaaaaaaay…………I called the pedigree completely wrong, but I still think that we’re agreeing on the basic premise; what makes a martial art effective is the person. I’ve taught people to the black belt level who I doubt could fend off a teenaged pickpocket, and I’ve taught yellow belts who made even me a little nervous.
While there might be some confusion about what defines a hero, this guy is certainly a legend.
http://www.uscg.mil/history/people/HealyMichaelIndex.asp
Obsidian,
Have you ever heard of him?
BP: “As he explained it Grandma was impressed enough so long as he wasn’t the instigator.”
This kind of reminds me of an altercation my husband had on a tdy a couple of years ago. Since we’d been married, he had never been in a brawl. But he got into a huge barfight in Utah (I think?). Specifics aren’t important except to say he didn’t get hurt, definitely won, and was “in the right” (he didn’t start it, only finished it and the police placed the other culprits in jail).
If he had been the type to start a fight for no reason, I wouldn’t like that. And I definitely don’t want a man who gets into trouble with the law. But in this case, strangely (and I don’t like watching fights, except on cinema when I know no one is really hurt), listening to him talk about it made me seriously hot. “Tell me again what happened….” “Then what?” “I want to hear everything…” “Okay, this is very very disturbing and I hope this won’t happen again…but, tell me again about the fight.” (shrugs)
http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=QMb-nbXGZ-8
Following up on my comment to Doclove above, here is Tommy Sotomayor on “Chiraq” – check it out…
O.
When is the last time you’ve been involved with a quiet, DEMURE black woman who isn’t carrying an AARP card? Let me make it easier: When is the last time you’ve seen a quiet, demure black woman under the age of 70? I won’t hold my breath..
Hah! Good luck finding one of those unicorns either (a “sweet and demure” black woman over 70, that is).
Not only is he a thug, he don’t even date sisters
It must speak volumes about the odiousness of Amerika’s Beastie Sistahood that black men in numbers find white Amerikan women appealing by comparison.
#110 You know how when a man starts seeing red and then he’s in it until it’s all over but the crying? Somebody’s gonna die (effectively) or run away. When does it start getting hot for a woman? When does it stop?
Let’s you and him fight, sf version.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arena_(Star_Trek:_The_Original_Series)
“When does it start getting hot for a woman? When does it stop?”
I think it’s only hot after the fact.
But I’ve never seen a real (adult) fight so I couldn’t really say.
@110
Liz,
You would have liked my Grandma. She like you was a no none sense type. Spent WW2 as an Army nurse. Got shot at on Guam. Became a boxing fan when she was in NYC getting her RN.
I still ask him to tell me about the fight occasionally. It hasn’t stopped being hot yet.
That’s awesome, BP! I’ll bet I would have liked her too.
#116 “But I’ve never seen a real (adult) fight so I couldn’t really say.”
The first clue that it is an adult fight is that saying “Uncle!” doesn’t work any more.
In their absense, what are women exposed to but bad examples of masculinity?
Perhaps you mean women like Sheryl Sandberg.
When is the last time you’ve been involved with a quiet, DEMURE black woman who isn’t carrying an AARP card? Let me make it easier: When is the last time you’ve seen a quiet, demure black woman under the age of 70? I won’t hold my breath..
Hah! Good luck finding one of those unicorns either (a “sweet and demure” black woman over 70, that is).
My reply: Coming out of lurking mode….Numbers of us fly under the radar. We don’t need to be seen, or if we are seen, it is merely fleeting, and we like it that way. Nobody sees us, because we are married already, which means that we are seen primarily at married couple/family type environments, especially in the daytime. Numbers of us are stay at home moms, which means that once again, we are primarily among other women and children. We might live in majority white suburbs, which means that we are seen primarily in the “ladies who lunch” type environments during the day–the supermarket, the mall, the local gym, or the crafts store (if we are so inclined). If we work, again, for example, in the 9-5 world, we are seen out and about during the day primarily or on our way home in the evening.
Another aspect of the dreamy-convict-with-a-heart-of-gold, Alpha tingle über alles, is how comfortable women are in admitting to their “helplessness” in being aroused by it.
Deti’s brought this up before, and I went into it in last week’s post, but there is virtually no attempt to keep their arousal a secret and belies a comfort women now have in openly admitting to hypergamy’s influence.
This is a prime admission here:
https://www.facebook.com/NojmaReflects/photos/a.267249689992252.104773.238554956195059/757885024262047/?type=1&theater
“On some sites his picture has gotten 45K likes and even up to over 200K likes.”
“Good men are an afterthought after we let the bad boys run through us. Give us children. Sit around our house while WE pay the bills. Get disrespected. Then after we have a high body mileage we want the good man. We want him to play Daddy to the children we had with the bad boy or bad boys. The same men we mocked we look for them to marry us.”
“Sadly, some women will demand a first class ticket on the Titanic instead of helping Noah build his ark.”
First I want to say this is a great blog which I’ve followed since finding Obsidian’s article, “Black Women Must Stop Mating with Mr. Big.” Anyways regarding this Meeks thing check out what my mentor says about it all. He tends to have a different perspective on things. http://www.romwills.com/blog
MMSL advises 99% nonthug with a dash of 1% thug ought to work fine in marriage. If it’s not working for you (and 99% of married men will honestly say it’s not working), then “If we assume your partner isn’t in some way broken or objectively defective” (which, by the way, I refuse to assume) he advises upping the thug until you “would do well in the opportunistic sexual market place”.
Guess what % of thug lets you do well in the *opportunistic* SMP? Hint: it’s not 1%.
pvw Y’all demure sisters might be content to fly under the radar but y’all ladies need to be seen in public once and a while. All these strong, independent thug chasing females need to see actual evidence that demure black women actually do exist.
@ ton
I like the sword cane idea. Had one myself, although it was list during a move a few years ago. If I were you, I’d also consider taking up Bo staff training. I did a little back when I was doing ninjitsu. It’s great if you are not as able to move around as before.
My personal favorite are nunchaku. Ever since playing Maxi on soul caliber, I said “I wanna do that”. And I loved it. Lightning fast strikes, fluidity of chaining multiple points of impact, a great tool to have when applying joint locks too. Add in that Michaelangelo was my favorite TMNT lol
Glad your doing well at any rate
Some more honesty,
And if a criminal catches our eye and makes us lose control it’s very easy to see how we end up in dysfunctional relationships with multiple baby daddies. It doesn’t take much. Be attractive. Be a thug. Have no ambition but I’ll have your babies. ..then I’ll complain about the bum I laid down with knowing you were a bum when I met you.
Oddly, she kind of laments it all. But not too much, it would seem.
pvw Y’all demure sisters might be content to fly under the radar but y’all ladies need to be seen in public once and a while. All these strong, independent thug chasing females need to see actual evidence that demure black women actually do exist.
It’s not for the benefit of the Beastie Sistahood that these women need to be (primarily) making their existence known. Rather, it’s for those MC/UMC black men out there who have pretty much given up on the goal of marrying a black woman. (These men assume, based on considerably persuasive circumstantial evidence, that their only potential mating choices are Keisha the Hoodrat Beastie Sistah/Baby Mama, or Juanita the EmpoweredWoman[TM] who views men in general, and black men in particular, as subhuman swine she doesn’t need).
In other words, ladies, even if you’re already married, making yourself visible makes it known that you DO exist and that all hope for single black MC/UMC men is NOT lost.
@ 126: pvw Y’all demure sisters might be content to fly under the radar but y’all ladies need to be seen in public once and a while. All these strong, independent thug chasing females need to see actual evidence that demure black women actually do exist.
Me: Yes, it is true, they might see us, if we happen to be in an area where they are. They won’t see me often, because I am one of those who lives in a majority white suburb. They might see me if I happen to be in the big city. But as someone mentioned earlier, there is no common language or experience for there to be a connection. We might as well be on a different planet.
If anything, on my part, I have a long memory. I recall when I was my younger self and just as demure. I was seen as “acting white, or stuck up.” I’m sure that view would amplified even more now, since the husband is not black. So I’d rather stay among my friends, thanks, the other black and white women who are like me.
As for the thug chasing, what can I say. It is one thing to recognize the attractiveness of Jeremy Meeks (and I did find him to be attractive), but there has to be some common sense and some higher rational thinking that makes a woman say “don’t go there!” Become enamored of him, send him my money–hell to the no!
But of course, these women lack that. If anything, as has been spoken about, there are far safer ways to be with a man who has “tingle inducing looks and skills.” Thugs are not where it is at, because without question, their craziness will eventually affect everyone in their orbit. Beyond that, as for giving the man money, that is just beyond ridiculous. If I had to give money away, I’d give it to some charitable cause I found truly legitimate.
OT, the male preference for a female having waist:hip ratio of 0.70 is a hard number, across cultures, countries, and centuries. Among a small group of men ranking digital images the average was 0.71 with a standard deviation of 0.36
http://link.springer.com/article/10.1007%2Fs10508-013-0166-1
FWIW HM is 30/44 = .68
@129, Feeriker:
In other words, ladies, even if you’re already married, making yourself visible makes it known that you DO exist and that all hope for single black MC/UMC men is NOT lost.
My reply: I imagine some of the other ladies might respond as well, but I am not sure what we can be doing beyond what we are doing now. As I mentioned, I’m out in public all the time, but just not necessarily in the environments that single black mc/umc men might see me.
Or if they see me, they might think, “over 35 black woman with wedding rings.” My older brothers or uncles or daddy would have dated her back in the day, but she is irrelevant. Moreover, women like that are not around today, so she is irrelevant.
In other news,
http://mobile.news.com.au/world/us-exchange-student-pulled-from-tubingen-university-marble-vagina/story-fndir2ev-1226963283491
#123 apparently women need permission and guidance and lessons on how to pretend an interest in good men, in much the same way that good men need permission and guidance and lessons on how to be bad boys (aka Game).
This is additional support for the notion that women are masculinizing to the point of being more or less men with breasts.
The male counterpart is a wide swath of men’s attraction to an obvious trashed out, nasty, probably disease-ridden slut, who makes a living rubbing herself on socially stunted omegas at the local middling-to low-rent strip joint, and who has an N in the triple digits. This chick makes Christina Aguilera look like Sandra Dee. Yeah, she’s a slut that you SAY you wouldn’t touch with your enemy’s cock, but dammit, She. Is. HAWT. And you know you shouldn’t be attracted to her, but you are, and you’d have sex with her, and you know you would.
Most men would be honest – yeah, I’d hit that.
Just as women are swooning over the likes of Jeremy Meeks.
Farm Boy,
That was beyond bizarre.
For the Captain America fans…
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ksp5TCr-nN0
Comparing him to Tony Stark, in addition to the idealism from the 40s, there’s also humility.
Hero is a bullshit word, unless you did something to pull off a CMH. Otherwise it’s just men doing a job and being good at it.
@ 127; thanks brother. I am doing well. This last 7 months or so have been some of the best ones of my life. Even made it through my brothers DOB and DOD with nothing but good memories.
I have a cold steel cane sword. Only readily available commercial product I have 1st hand experience with. It will do the job but I carry a gun in one pocket, brass knuckles in the other. Not sure how cane swords work out with concealed cary laws and what not and a regular cane is a decent enough weapon to fill that void between less then lethal and lethal force with less legal ambiguity. Knuckle dusters are nice because #1 effective; #2 cheap; #3 easy to conceal; #4 easy to throw away as you leave the scenes; #5 no additional skill set required. Which is why I prefer push knives to more traditional knives.
I do my best to look at these things from a cost benefit perceptive vs hamstering my personal preferences. My favorite weapons in the world are JDAMS, cruise missiles and cluster bombs but they are rather impractical while your just walking around town.
108, sadly Sumo we do not agree. Traditional marital arts waste tons of time and energy on things unrelated to effective application of violence as a conflict resolution tool. Like 15 minutes a day striving for a level of flexibility that isn’t required, learning a foreign language, bowing just so etc.etc. none of that translates to.success, and every 4 days of wasting 15 minutes of training time is an hour of actual combat preparation. If you train 4 times a week for a year, the guy who doesn’t do that stuff has 13 more weeks training time then you. Then there are tons of tricks and maneuvers that do not translate into actual combat. Even the method of training where you let the other guy complete the maneuver time after time sets you up for failure.
When I 1st started in MMA all the various traditional artist made showings. And got stomped. That was the good old days of no weight classes, no time limits, tournament style fighting and before they girlyed up the rules. The reason why the MMA guys today fight in such similar styles is because all the traditional artist lost. Badly. Not even close. I crushed a kung fu master in under a minute in my 1st MMA tournament.
Times and what not change. We no longer fight in a phalanx either.
If a man wants to learn kung fu etc so be it. Enjoy. But learn to walk way small because that thug who wants your wallet has been in 4 dozen street fights where his life and long term health were at serious jeopardy.
Boxing is way underrated. You might only learn 5 skills but you get them up to speed quickly. I do not think it takes any particular skill to use a cane effectively. All you need to is not over commit to any swing and be serious about fucking the other dude up.
People make this $hit overly complex. It isn’t. It’s all about your willingness to hurt and be hurt and some modest level of proficiency. Your geospatial what not is useless.
98 Ob’s I’ve been thinking ( dangerous past time, I know) & there isn’t a good answer for you because each man is starting at a different base line. Given how important confidence is I am going to say a man should double down on learning to fight and then actually fight. In the ring. In front of people who will cheer and boo. None of that point fighting nonsense either. A real fight, with real pain and blood and real bruises. It will get a man in shape and build confidence based on something real and primal.
For me, getting pretty is way over rated. Saturday I pulled a number from a girl. Turns out she “dances” in a strip club with a $200 cover charge. I meet her at some dinner while I wearing a dew rag, Hawaiian shirt without selves and work boots. Course I was riding a custom Fatboy…. I saw no uptick in my closing rate when I dressed better that couldn’t be explained by having more money to chase ass.
Has there ever been a time when girls didn’t find bad boys attractive? I don’t think so. Most girls/women at some time have lusted after a bad boy (and probably just kept that information to herself). If that said bad boy is “eye candy” like Mr. Meeks?….that just adds fuel to the fire. I’m not the least surprised that he got 200K+ likes on facebook. Of course, the other 3.5 billion women in the world did not “like” him…so I guess that says something as well. For most women, its okay to just watch that from a far. He is pretty to look at and fantasize about….but we can leave it there. I might find the Panda bear in the zoo adorable, but I’m smart enough to not scratch him behind his ears. I think our forebrains will override any nasty ideas our hypothalmus gives us if it affects our overall well being……usually.
This post reminded me of a Nightline segment I saw a little while ago when I couldn’t sleep. It was about a porn star named James Deen who specializes in BDSM porn. His fan base is composed of most girls 13-18.
http://abcnews.go.com/Entertainment/teens-swoon-porns-fresh-approachable-james-deen/story?id=15508220
As a mother of a teenage girl, this made my skin crawl. It appears middle school girls are watching “bad boy” BDSM porn on their ipads when no one is watching. This, to me, is a heck of a lot scarier than Mr. Meeks sexy good looks getting noticed.
I’m suddenly in the mood for some Sons of Anarchy reruns.
So the counter to daughter’s watching bdsm porn is a show completely glamourizing 1%’er?….. Ether way it’s sends them girls my way
Lyn M,
After that little revelation, I need to…
@ Fuzzie, I wish I could find a bear to scratch behind the ears. (Where is Grzzily Adams when you need him)
@SFCton, I’m sure you’re wonderful, but I hope my girl finds a CPA somewhere who gives her tingles.
Speaking of Sons of Anarchy….I watched an interview with the lead actor Charlie Hunnam. For the interview, he wore a suit and used his normal proper British accent…..instead if his character’s American biker thug lingo. In my mind, he went from pretty sexy in the series….to just pretty in real life. Wish I knew why that is.
LynM,
After that news clip, this more than just idle curiousity. Something deep and sinister is going on. Mothers are going to want lock up their sons.
@143
I get sick just thinking about it. The one girl said she has been viewing porn since 10. The porn star said he wanted to be a porn star since he was 5!( when he saw his first porn). If I had know what private access to the Internet would eventually lead to, my kids would have never had a smart phone or a tablet at their disposal. There is something to be said for just one computer in the family room……but hindsight is 20/20 as they say. Newtons 3rd law…..For every action is there is an equal and opposite reaction …..is certainly true. Society makes things better in one aspect, but that improvement will create new problems in the horizon.
@’142, me to Lyn M. For all.involved
Way back in the day I had a Britsh team chief. He use to say “I’m not gay, just British”. Western European dudes often seem prissy and effeminate to americans and then there is the bad boy appeal getting crushed.
@sfcton 145
I agree, British guys seem very classy…..but often not sexy. The one exception that comes to mind is Daniel Craig in Casino Royale. Did you see that? He pulled sexy British hunk off perfectly. Grrrrrr!!!
I think I need to watch Casino Royale
Lyn M “I agree, British guys seem very classy…..but often not sexy”
Two words: Strike Back. It’s a BBC series. The two main characters are far hotter than Daniel Craig (at least, in my estimation).
(also, Richard Armitage from the first season…and I recommend every other BBC show with him in it. Tragically, in his first major American role he plays a dwarf, which gives my husband endless delight).
@ Liz 147
Thanks for the tip. I’ll check it out. My TV line up is full tonight!
Y’all ladies are going to go blind….
To sfcton…I’ll just watch till I need glasses.
To Liz, forgot about Jason Stratham……he’s definitely a tinglerater.
“To Liz, forgot about Jason Stratham……he’s definitely a tinglerater.”
Yes! YES! YEEESSSS!!!
G’night. Going to be alone with my thoughts now.
#139 We’re pretty much decided that what made civilization civilized was chaining women to the iron stove. The only real debate left for any manospherians is whether to become a bad boy, emphasis on bad, or forget about tingling women. Believe it or not it’s a difficult choice for most of us.
There is no possible way to treat women well, and get treated properly by women. Seriously. There is absolutely no excuse for my wife, for example, not to greet me properly every day.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2380507/Watch-dog-howl-excitement-gives-owner-heros-welcome-months-deployment.html
At some other unmentionable site, Elizabeth McClintock’s reanalysis of old data has been trumpeted as evidence that trophy wives are a thing of the past. Two big problems I’ve found with McClintock’s approach, in which she tries to show that young pretty women aren’t hooking up dumbly with older richer gents, are
1. She thinks she’s derived that handsome young men ought to be more interested in McClintock than they currently are.
2. McClintock only uses a biased subsample of VERY young couples from the Adolescent Sexual Health study, in which the man and woman are the same ages. McClintock pretends to be surprised that so few ugly old rich men make it into her sample, and that young men in couples tend to be better looking than men who don’t have girlfriends.
@Ton #138
We can disagree all day long, I’m still going to value your opinion.
My “base” for martial arts is American kenpo, so no learning a foreign language was required. I consider it traditional in the sense that we wore the surprisingly comfortable black pajamas; other than that, it was fairly similar to the modern incarnation of MMA, as I understand it.
I never set foot in a ring, but I lived through 3 years as a bouncer, 5 years as a mall cop/loss prevention douche, and 8 years in law enforcement without getting my ass kicked, so I’m going to credit my martial arts training as a big reason for that.
@Jf12 #153
There is no possible way to treat women well, and get treated properly by women. Seriously. There is absolutely no excuse for my wife, for example, not to greet me properly every day.
You should be greeted properly everyday. I highly encourage dog ownership. I wish I knew the magic formula to make a marriage work, but I don’t. I don’t necessary think the meme (that cruel men make women excited ) is correct. In real life, there are very few James Bonds and Bond girls around. Most us you spend our mundane existence being happy with a safe home and healthy kids. Scenes like this have to serve as our little forays into danger.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=tlBeY08tfao
#156 I’m a LOT better, and not bragging or joking. Roughly speaking the average beta is a MUCH better lover than even the better alphas; we have to be to get any at all. But women treat the alphas better.
#156 “I wish I knew the magic formula to make a marriage work, but I don’t.”
Not to be too snide, but I wish I didn’t know. I still can’t quite bring myself to treat my wife as badly as she would respond to properly.
MMSL doubles down on his less-than-helpful purple pilling indecisiveness, always always always blaming the man, just like a girl.
http://marriedmansexlife.com/2014/06/if-you-wanna-go-fast-add-beta/
If your wife still isn’t acting right, add more beta until she acts right, guaranteed!
If your wife still isn’t acting right, add more alpha until she acts right,guaranteed!
If your wife still isn’t acting right, add more beta until she acts right, guaranteed!
If your wife still isn’t acting right, add more alpha until she acts right,guaranteed!
etc.
@153
Not exclusively chaining women to the stove. No there is a another component which might be more important. Dispatching the obvious thugs who won’t play by the rules. Permitting such to live creates market externalities and inefficiencies that can only be resolved by eliminating the thug.
It wasn’t the alphas who built civilization. It was the betas who wanted a better chance at survival if not a biological legacy. Competitive collaboration, strict codes of law, personal industry, and delayed gratification are not alpha* traits.
*alpha in the alpha=tingles sense
The Commonwealth unites to protect teen girls’ rights to have sex with any thug at any time. And anyone who even laughs it it is liable to get his testicles crushed.
http://www.thesmokinggun.com/documents/sex-on-school-bus-guilty-plea-576324
She pled guilty to misdemeanor harassment with not even a fine.
Jf12,
It is painful to hear you go on about your wife. Have you eve tried getting out of the house and being out of contact for an extended time? I don’t know if it would work.
#160 yes but no. I’ve moved on. Yes, what created civilization was probably the agreement between alphas and betas in which the alphas promised to shove weeping women towards the betas in exchanges for the alphas not being killed.
But now that women aren’t doing right, the agreement is null because moot. Therefore, betas treating women worse is now my recommendation, and forget about the alphas, they’re too few and outnumbered greatly by problematic women.
#162 most of my comments don’t mention my wife.
@jf12
I don’t know how you feel about this, but I believe you should never put your partner above yourself. I don’t mean this in a cruel way, but in order to fully be a partner in a relationship …you need to take care of yourself first. Kind of like the demonstrations the flight attendants give us before take off…..put the oxygen on yourself before you help your family. You have to take care of yourself, otherwise you are no use to anyone else. I never thought it was the spouses responsibility to make the other spouse happy. Happiness, except in the most extreme circumstances, comes from within…..IMHO.
Piling on. “Something else entirely” indeed. The drool is puddling under her chair.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-intersect/wp/2014/06/23/hot-felon-jeremy-meeks-is-the-perfect-encapsulation-of-all-the-internets-problems/?tid=pm_lifestyle_pop
“On Wednesday, the police department in Stockton, Calif., posted to Facebook the mugshots of four people they arrested on felony weapons charges — because apparently the police in Stockton are in the habit of posting such things. Three of the men were fairly average, insolent-looking dudes with rebellious half-smirks on their faces. But the fourth man, Jeremy Meeks, was something else entirely.”
“you’ll soon enough hear about “the feels.””
http://www.theawl.com/2012/10/the-killer-crush-from-columbiners-to-beliebers
“What makes you want to scream and scream until someone slaps you?”
Nothing. But there’s a lot of screamers I’d like to slap.
#165 a cup of rice supposedly makes some people happy. Try telling those people they don’t need the rice, everything they need is within. Go ahead, I’ll wait for you to tell us their response.
Jf12,
I wish that I could offer words of assistance or, failing that, comfort.
On aoother point, does it seem as if the news items that are less than flattering to women are coming more frequently?
There is no possible way to treat women well, and get treated properly by women.
“Faeminis non modo bene est, et a feminis posset bene agitur.” (Courtesy of Google Translate)
Spot on. So much so, in fact, that I felt it deserved a Latin translation (for which I can’t vouch for the grammatical accuracy, my Latin being rustier than the Titanic’s remains).
Might this be a candidate for “manosphere motto?”
I never thought it was the spouses responsibility to make the other spouse happy.
I never did either, and still don’t. My wife disagrees.
The thread about Rhianna was interesting.
Let’s get to the brass tax of things.
Youtube bro & Jeremy Meeks are more handsome than I will ever be at my best.
Which is all cool in the game.
Youtube bro has a higher ceiling than Jeremy Meeks.
Because Jeremy Meeks is a dumbass (check his rap sheet, no respectable crimes he can pull on) whose verbal game is trash.
——————————
My #1 issue with #JeremyMeeks Melissa Harris, is that
It is all fun and games until more BLACK MEN say, FUCK IT, let me be
A violent thug who can’t talk vs. A Scholar with master orator skills that rival Barack Obama & MLK.
——–
A baby father who is in & out of PRISON vs. A husband & father who provides for his wife & children (WHO WOMEN BARELY WANT TO GIVE RECOGNITION.)
———
A man who beats on his woman, cheats on his woman, & put his woman at a great disadvantage VS. Treating her well & making sure that her needs are positively met AMAP.
So, when black women get more DEGENERATE BLACK MEN
vs
BLACK MEN who are WILLING & ABLE to start a FUNCTIONAL FAMILY with a woman.
THE constant complaining about the lack of Good Black Men will fall on deaf ears.
And their will be very few black men to fill the ever gaping void.
You will literally have brothas who check for non-BW.
Or become super thuggish, and hyper-masculine to meet Black women ever insatiable hypergamous drives.
—————
I will & other men, with glee, will remind y’all about Jeremy Meeks fiasco.
And how women tried with passionate vigor to clown us for pushing the issue.
Because in my mind, and in most Black Men’s mind,
Based on the type of men, women allow access to her womb!
Women are spoken loudly about the kind of men, that they want for a good time, and for the long haul.
The absence of critical thinking among women with this lightskin brother, has UNINTENDED consequences, that a lot of BW have NOT fully thought out.
And it will bite y’all in the azz collectively in the WORST WAY.
#IWillBeSippinOnSomeBombAzzTeaInTheMeanTime
#CanIGetWitness #AndTheChurchSays
Off-topic: I wonder how much of school bullying is due to the brave new sexual marketplace.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2665845/Shocking-moment-Russian-school-bullies-force-girl-13-drink-puddle-water-pretty.html?ito=video_player_click#comments
If you look at the attackers, it’s clear they are, by Russian standards, overweight and very plain-looking. Such girls have always been jealous, but there was a time when their mating value was artificially inflated by the patriarchy and they could be sure that they’ll get married to average dudes who were sufficiently masculinized and toughened up by society. But now it’s all gone, and such girls are flipping out.
@ 155
All’s well with me Sumo. American Kenpo did ok in the early days of MMA, but faded, not as quickly as the others and ircc one of the “early” to remove marital arts bsery. I see the early days of MMA as a live “combat” lab/ experiment. Highly eye opening and confirming what guy like me had been saying for…… well probably way before I was kicking.
I cannot find the links, but there is some small body of research that points to women digging sadism in a man. Another facet of the bad boy appeal.
For years in my marriage, my dogs were the only things I came home to. I would regularly spend X number of days down range doing bad thing to worse people( or waiting around for the opportunity to do so), then come home to a hostile wife, fearful and bratty kids but happy dogs. The 1st time I was gone for a year, my Great Danes knocked me down and pinned me. Man I still love those dogs better then any woman.
@ 170
To girls, it is always someone else’s responsibility.
@JF12:
” At some other unmentionable site, Elizabeth McClintock’s reanalysis of old data has been trumpeted as evidence that trophy wives are a thing of the past. Two big problems I’ve found with McClintock’s approach, in which she tries to show that young pretty women aren’t hooking up dumbly with older richer gents, are
1. She thinks she’s derived that handsome young men ought to be more interested in McClintock than they currently are.
2. McClintock only uses a biased subsample of VERY young couples from the Adolescent Sexual Health study, in which the man and woman are the same ages. McClintock pretends to be surprised that so few ugly old rich men make it into her sample, and that young men in couples tend to be better looking than men who don’t have girlfriends.”
O: Boom!–not only that, but certain of said unmentionable site’s regulars are scratching their heads over Jigga & Bey.
So, let’s put this all into context, shall we?
1. You CANNOT properly assess assortative mating WITHOUT taking into account Cross Character Assortment. This is straight fro Darwin. A particular couple is matched, BUT ON THE METRICS THAT EACH SEX FINDS VALUABLE IN THE OPPOSITE SEX
2. This explains how and why Jay-Z and Beyonce’ would get and thus far some six years later, stay together: because each offers what the other wants. In the case of Jigga, it’s clear he wants, among other things, a seriously hawt chica. And in the case of Queen Bey, it’s clear that she wants a “soldier”.
Jigga was NEVER considered handsome by the ladies; his main attractors were his status, ambition formidable talents as a rapper and businessman, daring and cunning, and yes, height, which he does have.
I have in my possession a memoir by Ms. Carmen Bryant – for those who may not recognize the name, she is raper Nas’ Baby Mama. Her memoir details the three guys she was sexually involved with the latter 90s/early 2000s: the aforementioned Nas; Jigga; and Allen Iverson.
Bryant discusses her first meeting with Nas, and gives a detailed physical description of him; clearly she thinks he is attractive. When she is set up on a blind date with “Bubba Chuck” she is taken aback by his striking presence, referring to him later as, and I quote, a “sexual warrior”.
Ahem.
But in the case of Jigga, she does NOT describe him in that way – in fact, of all three Men, he is the LAST to hit it, because Bryant saw him as, let’s all say it together now –
A friend.
She describes a scene in her book where Jigga chases her around his north Jersey penthouse apartment, until he finally catches and has sex with her. This was at least a year after their first meeting. By then, she had if memory calls, at least one abortion due to her runnings with A.I. and was at war with Nas, as they both were cheating at this point.
When a list of Black American heart throbs is compiled, Jigga’s name ain’t on it EVER. And that’s despite his height over 6′. Again, what gets Jigga over, aside from his height, which is a factor, is his intelligence – which I’ve discussed above. Indeed, in many ways, Jigga is about as close as it gets to the fictional Stringer Bell sans the good looks. No one would ever confuse Jay-Z with Mr. Idris Elba.
Which brings us back to our main point – Queen Bey can afford to marry or otherwise partner with anyone she wants, right? I mean after all, look at Rihanna and Chris Brown – who IS cited as one of the hotter Brothas out there, unlike Jigga. If we’re to buy the assortative mating argument that certain unmentionable sites drone on and on about, then how are to account for Jigga and Bey?
Let’s look at some other Black heart throb Brothas Bey could have gotten with:
Michael Ealy
Lance Gross
Idris Elba, obviously
Boris Kodjoe
Tyrese Gibson
And that’s just for starters. In ALL of these cases, these are Men who are consistently mentioned by Sistas themselves as among the most desirable. Moreover, they are among the tops at their relative games.
So why didn’t Beyonce’ get with one of them, or with Brothas like them?
Well, for one thing, she’s more successful than all of the guys on the list. Take Elba, for example – his signature role remains Stringer Bell in The Wire, a show that’s been off the air now for the better part of six years. He’s had a successful career since then, but nothing as big or bigger than that.
Gross does sitcoms and romcoms, Black ones at that. He’s more known for his modeling work than anything else.
Same deal with Ealy and definitely Kodjoe.
Tyrese is perhaps the closest thing to cross-character assortment on the list for someone of Beyonce’s caliber, being that he’s a Grammy-nominated singer, model, actor and NTY bestselling author, *twice*.
And yet, Beyonce’ chose Jigga.
Oh, and lest we forget:
Jay-Z was born on Dec 4, 1969; Beyonce was born on Sep 4, 1981 – a difference of about 12 years.
A final note:
I’m not one to name drop, but I’ll make an exception in this case and for a very important reason:
Over at the Website That Shall Not Be Named, some of its regulars were attempting to make the case that, once you take all the weaves and makeup off of Beyonce’, she actually comes closer to Jigga in looks. Only someone who is ideologically blinkered would say such a thing – and definitely someone who has never met the lady in person as I have.
Back in 2001 – when Beyonce’ was about 20 or so – I met her and the rest of Destiny’s Child. She was doing a benefit concert at a mall I used to work in, as part of a management team of a chain of family-owned stores. We chatted for a few minutes, and I found her to be very polite and personable – and fellas, make no mistake about it, she was smokin’. Which was saying a lot because Destiny’s Child, as a trio, was smokin (Kelly Rowland is with child, so the grapevine says these days). They would go on to do a concert across the bridge in Philly for the Sixers, where Iverson was playing, against the Lakers in their bid to win a NBA title.
Sure, no one would argue that “fixes” haven’t been used then or now, to “help” Beyonce'; but those who argue this as the “reason” as to how and why she’s hot completely and deliberately miss the point. Back then, nearly 15 years ago Beyonce’ was easily in the top ten percent of ALL smilarly aged Black Women in the state of New Jersey, where I met her – and I ought to know, having worked or traveled through the entire state many, many times. No way, no how, is Jigga comparable to Beyonce’ in looks. In fact, one of the big things on the Bossip wires, is how ugly Blue Ivy will be as she clearly takes after her father lookswise. If indeed Bey and Jigga were that closely matched in this way, there would be nothing to gossip about.
More in a sec…
O.
@JF12:
Picking up on my last comment…
Over at said unmentionable blog, the response to the citation of Jigga and Beyonce’ is to say “Ha! Exception Fallacy!” – all the while using a very narrow slice of the American population as a base upon which to opine on assortative mating(!).
Projection much?
Prof. McClintock (more on her in a bit, stay tuned) uses the National Adolescent Health Survey, I think that’s the formal name; it was started back in the 90s and tracked teenagers as they moved through their highschool and college years* and now as they are young adults. It’s an interesting piece of work, but hardly comprehensive – which is a major failing of sociologists, which McClintock is. Her work fails to account for large swaths of time and clime.
Now of course she, and said unmentionable site, will argue that what the “data” shows is that Women are revealing their real choices now that they don’t need no Man. But again this reasoning breaks down when you consider that one, Women have always worked outside the home, and two, that Women have always had more education in the States than Men.
Both of these facts are in clear and present evidence in Black America – Black Women have always worked, and, they have gone to school at significantly higher numbers than Black Men, a trend that continues to this day. So for their argument to hold up, they would have to account for these historical factors ACROSS ALL DEMOGRAPHICS IN AMERICA – and of course, they don’t.
Said unmentionable site is inherently disingenuous because it deliberately focuses on a very narrow slice of the American population – upper middle class, White Millennials – when there are Millennials who are not White, nor upper middle class nor college attending. In fact, MOST Americans, right NOW, do NOT have college degrees(!) – about 30%. Only about 25% of all Americans have degrees, be that undergrad or advanced. And roughly another 25% have had “some college” – in other words, they dropped out.
So, taken together, you have 55% of the current adult aged population that is entirely left out, regardless of color in said unmentionable site’s blatherings. How in any way is THAT supposed to be authoritative?
More in a sec…
O.
@JF12:
Here’s Prof. Elizabeth Aura McClintock’s personal website:
http://elizabethauramcclintock.com/
If you click through her site on the left, you will see her work in the MSM – and immediately, it raises an eyebrow for me. It will be bleedingly obvious as to how and why.
Moreover, McClintock is a SOCIOLOGIST, a field that is notoriously squishy, slippery and at times, devoid of logic, to say nothing of empiricism. It’s had several well known names in its ranks thouroughly discredited and/or outright disgraced, too.
I think Prof. McClintock has a number of personal biases she wants to “prove” by scientific reasoning – the problem is, as you rightly point out, she’s going about it the wrong way, and anyone who takes what she says hook line and sinker, only proves that they wasted a lot of time and money attending one of the better Ivies in the country – one that is in my hometown at that. Simple Socratic questioning would tease out all these matters.
And you don’t need a degree, sociological or otherwise, to do that…
More in a sec…
O.
@JF12:
Here’s the “data” said unmentionable website holds out as being authoritative along assortative mating lines, and which McClintock uses in her study that supposedly “disproves” socalled “trophy wives” (does anyone think Beyonce’ is a “trophy wife”?):
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Longitudinal_Study_of_Adolescent_Health
” The National Longitudinal Study of Adolescent Health (Add Health) is the only nationally representative study of adolescent health, which has spawned over 1900 peer-reviewed publications. Add Health is a longitudinal study of a nationally representative sample of adolescents in grades 7-12 in the United States during the 1994-95 school year. The Add Health cohort has been followed into young adulthood with four in-home interviews, the most recent in 2008, when the sample was aged 24-32. Add Health combines longitudinal survey data on respondents’ social, economic, psychological and physical well-being with contextual data on the family, neighborhood, community, school, friendships, peer groups, and romantic relationships, providing unique opportunities to study how social environments and behaviors in adolescence are linked to health and achievement outcomes in young adulthood. The fourth wave of interviews expanded the collection of biological data in Add Health to understand the social, behavioral, and biological linkages in health trajectories as the Add Health cohort ages through adulthood.”
Interestingly enough, Beyonce’ would fall into this study’s demograhic. Ha!
One other thing on Cross Character Assortment:
You all may recall my recent post on “Louie”, the semi-autobiographical comedy show by Louis CK, the “Fat Lady” episode? In case you missed here, here it is again:
http://www.justfourguys.com/louis-ck-the-fat-lady-assortative-mating-happy-together/
Now –
Our interlocutors over at so and so would argue, that Vanessa is Louie’s assortative mate because both are “round” – and on top of that, Louie is solidly middle-aged and looks it. The problem with this simplistic view of assortative mating, is that it leaves out Cross Character Assortment.
Vanessa clearly is the winner here, assuming Louie accepts her as a mate. Why?
Because Louie, despite his relatively advanced age and lack of conventional attractiveness, is nevertheless a successful standup comic in NYC – which means, he has both status and relative financial success: TRAITS THAT ARE VERY IMPORTANT TO WOMEN.
But Louie is clearly on the losing side in the deal with Vanessa. Why? Well, to ask the question, is to answer it: she’s fat. A fat White Woman, at that, because White guys are much harder on the bigger gals than we Brothas are. She brings no “upside” to the equation – she’s not even super highly educated or earning – something that our peanut gallery interlopers constantly say is a determining factor for guys these days, right?
The simple truth here is that Louie, deficits noted, still can do better than what Vanessa has to offer – in fact the show DOES show him scoring with Women who are “out of his league” – now, why is that? Why would these Women agree to go out with him if he was so whacked?
Could it be because he has status and relative resources, among other things?
You see, this is what said unmentionable website either is ignorant about, or refuses to add, to their many yammerings about assortative mating. Cross Character Assortment, again a concept straight from Darwin, is a very crucial component of the puzzle – all the moreso when you consider the fact that of Female Mate Choice(!). If indeed assortative mating were the rule of the day as our interlocutors would have it, then why didn’t Vanessa get with another fat barista? Further, why did Vanessa have to put in ALL of the mating effort to get with Louie in the first place? That alone tells you who has more Mate Value – and it ain’t Vanessa.
Let’s see if they’ll go run that…
O.
I had no idea that she’d sold that many albums. That’s crazy.
She, like Halle Berry, is a perfectly normal mixed-race girl, so I don’t get all the hype about her appearance. She has great marketing.
@ Ton 174
To girls, it is always someone else’s responsibility.
Their motto: “When in doubt, blame a man.” As adults, women generally suck. That’s why men have to treat most women like small children. In that regard, there may be a few unicorns around, but very few.
Kind of blows up the whole idea of marriage as a partnership of equals.
All of this was well understood back in the ’50s. Then feminism came in force.
” I had no idea that she’d sold that many albums. That’s crazy.
She, like Halle Berry, is a perfectly normal mixed-race girl, so I don’t get all the hype about her appearance. She has great marketing.”
O: Hey Ms. Alte! Been following the action over at Ms. Elspeth’s place. I trust you’ll be on your best behavior here, hmm?
I take it by the above quote you mean Rihanna; if so, yes, she is quite successful, and for the reasons I noted in my VSB commentary. YOU may not “get all the hype” about her, but in American life, particularly on the Black side, Rihanna is atypical – not only is she a Mixed Chick, but she is an exceptionally attractive one at that (Harvard Law Prof. Lani Guinier is also a Mixed Chick and NOT at all attractive). You’re mention of Halle Berry is another case in point – HIGHLY atypical for Cleveland, OH.
Rihanna is living proof that Beauty Pays.
O.
@ O.
But again this reasoning breaks down when you consider that one, Women have always worked outside the home….
Actually, they haven’t, in any numbers, until the 40’s. WW2 was on and America needed industrial workers, so women worked outside the home.
@ O.
Women have always had more education in the States than Men.
Not until fairly recently did the number of women in college exceed that of the number of men.
@ 180
One of the conclusions I came to early after my divorce is a man is always unequally yoked. If she think you are equals, you are doomed. Portray yourself as equals and your screwed ( or not screwed ).
Let’s look at Ob’s favorite couple Beyonce and Jay-Z. If he ever loses his pull she’ll bounce. They are not equals. Her beauty is transitory and if past performance is indicative of future behaviour, his value will continue to increase. There is no assortive mating unless the woman is out of options. She mates/dates/ fucks upward as much as possible( upward being dependent on the size of her pond.)
@ASD Gamer:
” Actually, they haven’t, in any numbers, until the 40′s. WW2 was on and America needed industrial workers, so women worked outside the home.”
O: Wrong. Industrial Revolution and before that, Agriculture. See Stephanie Coontz, no cat’s paw for the Right, for more on this. Also, as I said, Sistas have always worked.
O.
Aren’t mixed chicks generally exceptionally attractive? The ones I see here, in Europe, are all quite beautiful.
@183
Before WWI, women outnumbered men because of teacher’s colleges.
@ASD Gamer:
” Not until fairly recently did the number of women in college exceed that of the number of men.”
O: Let’s try this again:
In America, Women have tended to have more education than Men; in the Black community, this has especially been the case, and is a trend that continues to this day.
My statement in no way contradicts yours, or vice versa.
Any questions?
O.
pvw #130:
Yes, it is true, they might see us, if we happen to be in an area where they are. They won’t see me often, because I am one of those who lives in a majority white suburb. They might see me if I happen to be in the big city. But as someone mentioned earlier, there is no common language or experience for there to be a connection. We might as well be on a different planet.
Just thought I’d cosign this. I go all week long with no interaction with black people who aren’t in my immediate family.
I don’t think it’s a priority of mine to be seen to promote the idea that not all black women are beasties.
Not to be too snide, but I wish I didn’t know. I still can’t quite bring myself to treat my wife as badly as she would respond to properly.
Despite our recent disagreement jf12, that made me sad. It seems to you to be hard to believe that a man can be strong and firm, but loving.
@182
What Obsidian didn’t do was specify lower class/working class women. Be it domestic help, nursing, teaching, all manner of clerical, women not in the middle class or higher had to work outside the home even before WW2 and even if they had small children.
In the merchant class wives were almost always working in the family business, same with on the farms. What had changed is the focus on career, the necessity and of middle and upper class women to work outside the home and family busineses. And then the desire to work for themselves regardless of necessity or the financial wisdom of such.
So when Obdidian says women have always worked outside the home he refers to the 30-50% that did so before 1970. Since that time, which is our lifetimes, women, most all of them have always worked.
What you are failing to grasp Elspeth is strong, firm and loving doesn’t get the job done with most chicks. If it does, then he is in the upper levels of looks.
@SFC Ton:
” Let’s look at Ob’s favorite couple Beyonce and Jay-Z. If he ever loses his pull she’ll bounce. They are not equals. Her beauty is transitory and if past performance is indicative of future behaviour, his value will continue to increase. There is no assortive mating unless the woman is out of options. She mates/dates/ fucks upward as much as possible( upward being dependent on the size of her pond.)”
O: Boom! Jigga has proven himself to be massively successful on a multitude of platforms: as a rapper, concerts promoter (his first effort in that regard being his “Made in America” tour, which was here in Philly and will continue to be, infusing much needed cash into the local economy), a businessman involved in apparel (Roc-A-Wear), pro sports (part-owner of the Brooklyn Nets; getting into being a sports agent), etc; signing a deal with Samsung to coincide with the release of “Magna Carta Holy Grail”, netting him $25M alone(!); founded his own record company in Roc-A-Fella Records AND was CEO of the iconic Def Jam Records; and more. Much, much more.
Beyonce’ on the other hand, hasn’t proven as widely successful – her forays into acting have been, at best, mediocre. “Obsessed” which had her opposite Idris Elba some years back, was a box office flop; “Dreamgirls”, which was supposed to be her big film, was upstaged by American Idol contestant Jennifer Hudson, who would go on to win both Grammys and an Oscar for her “Jennifer Holliday” role in the film. Without a doubt she is massively talented, and driven – but she is NOT on par with Jigga along these lines.
Not.
Even.
Close.
O.
@Badpainter:
” What Obsidian didn’t do was specify lower class/working class women. Be it domestic help, nursing, teaching, all manner of clerical, women not in the middle class or higher had to work outside the home even before WW2 and even if they had small children.
In the merchant class wives were almost always working in the family business, same with on the farms. What had changed is the focus on career, the necessity and of middle and upper class women to work outside the home and family busineses. And then the desire to work for themselves regardless of necessity or the financial wisdom of such.
So when Obdidian says women have always worked outside the home he refers to the 30-50% that did so before 1970. Since that time, which is our lifetimes, women, most all of them have always worked.”
O: Boom! And in addition to that, as a Brotha, let me say this:
Sistas have ALWAYS worked outside the home. Almost all of them. Go back to the year 1914 – a century ago – and I will guarantee you that the majority of Black Women were working, pretty much anywhere in the country you could name. Whether they were single or married.
Same deal with education. Again, go back to 1914 and compare the educational levels of Brothas to Sistas, and see who had more on average. Some of the earliest HBCUs catered almost exclusively to Sistas. Yes, Brothas went to college too, but not as in as great in numbers, and is something that continues to this very day. Most Sistas who got degrees back then almost always went into either nursing or teaching, but the point is made – they almost always had MORE education, than most Brothas did.
Again, none of this is theoretical for me, and as Ms. Elspeth is reading along I am sure she can confirm or deny this. My own parents are a case in point. Mama O was a graduate of Philly public schools and then went on to nursing school. Papa O dropped out of grade school to help take care of the family down in Savannah, Atlanta and Macon, GA, getting his GED in the Marine Corps before shipping off to Korea. After he got back home from Korea, he want to votech school on the G.I. Bill.
Nursing then and now, is a profession. My dad was a tradesman.
Assortative mating?
*side eye*
O.
@ 194
The meme women didn’t work outside the home is for rich folks. Poor women, White and Black have always worked outside the home when possible. The UMC thinks only the UMC class exists. Since they write the narrative, the narrative is mostly wrong.
@Ms. Elspeth, Ms. PVW:
” Just thought I’d cosign this. I go all week long with no interaction with black people who aren’t in my immediate family.
I don’t think it’s a priority of mine to be seen to promote the idea that not all black women are beasties.”
O: That’s fine; just as I don’t see it as my priority to “hold other Brotha’s accountable” for the things they do (rape in its various permutations, street harassment, et al), since I don’t do that.
Right?
Fair enough?
O.
@ O.
Wrong. Industrial Revolution and before that, Agriculture.
I don’t think that “worked outside the home” means what you think it means. Typically, it means “employed by a business.” When the U.S. was predominantly rural and agricultural, most women weren’t employed by a business. During the Industrial Revolution of the 1800’s, the U.S. was still predominantly rural and agricultural.
“In 1900, only 6 percent of married women worked outside the home, usually when their blue-collar husbands were unemployed. Among wives with children at home, very few worked at all.”
“The steady movement of married women into the labor force began around 1920, spiked during World War II, and never abated.”
http://www.pbs.org/fmc/book/2work8.htm
Apparently, Coontz failed to control for married women in her attempt to take down “Leave it to Beaver.” Distribution fallacy and all that.
O., you made the same error as Coontz, looking at all women when you should have focused more narrowly on married women in your historical statement (where you used “always”). Historically, “needing a man” generally meant that marriage was in view.
@SFC Ton:
” The meme women didn’t work outside the home is for rich folks. Poor women, White and Black have always worked outside the home when possible. The UMC thinks only the UMC class exists. Since they write the narrative, the narrative is mostly wrong.”
O: Exactly – which is how and why J4G is so important, because it is a pushback on said narrative. One of the big problems I had and continue to have with thus and so blog elsewhere, is their deliberately narrow focus. They do this because they know much of their “findings” can and will completely fall apart if they had to account for both Race and Class in their stuff.
Again, going back to my own parents, Cross Character Assortment strikes again. My mom could have written her own check as to who she wanted to get with; there weren’t many Brotha docs back then, so I would say that her choices were somewhat limited in that regard, fair enough. But she could have easily chosen Brothas who were more “polished” and definitely younger than my dad. And yet, she chose him, a marriage that proved to be highly successful by any measure. Five kids raised to adults, three of whom were married, none of them a drain on society but a net gain to it. No divorce, marriage ended at death.
Nor is my story in any way unique; in fact, it is quite common. I know Ton, that you can tell of very similar stories in your neck of the woods, as can others here in the forum. Yet, as you rightly point out, they never see the light of day at said unmentionable site or in the papers they wave about in such a self-congratulatory manner.
O.
@ASD Gamer:
” I don’t think that “worked outside the home” means what you think it means. Typically, it means “employed by a business.” When the U.S. was predominantly rural and agricultural, most women weren’t employed by a business. During the Industrial Revolution of the 1800′s, the U.S. was still predominantly rural and agricultural.”
O: Noted and granted; still, the point is made. Most Women of that era HAD to do SOMETHING to either survive on their own, or if they were married, contribute to the family coffers. Nor is this anything new, as Coontz recounts numerous times in her work.
“In 1900, only 6 percent of married women worked outside the home, usually when their blue-collar husbands were unemployed. Among wives with children at home, very few worked at all.”
“The steady movement of married women into the labor force began around 1920, spiked during World War II, and never abated.”
O: I’d like to know if they measured the situation with Black America at the time or not…
“Apparently, Coontz failed to control for married women in her attempt to take down “Leave it to Beaver.” Distribution fallacy and all that.”
O: No; she’s on it, and again I say this not as a fan of her ideological positions – I find her to be downright Marxist in some respects – but because she does a thorough job documenting these things well before America was even invented in other areas of the world. Women have always worked, saving for the relatively small number of privileged Women, which heads up the Feminist Lobby in our time.
“O., you made the same error as Coontz, looking at all women when you should have focused more narrowly on married women in your historical statement (where you used “always”). Historically, “needing a man” generally meant that marriage was in view.”
O: No, I said what I meant to say – that, historically speaking, both here in America and abroad, most Women worked in some capacity. That was true whether single or married.
And it was certainly true for Black America.
O.
@ 198 Ob’s that’s my definition of martial/ generational success as well.
Farm life in Appalachia was pretty much the farm meet you basic food needs what ever work young or off farm paid for what you couldn’t grow/ make yourself. Because of the offsite jobs available and the manual requirements of farm work, often the wife/ mom or older child was the only viable options.
The war on child labor is a war on working class folk
@Ms. Alte:
” Before WWI, women outnumbered men because of teacher’s colleges.”
O: Right. Nursing, too. And when you add in Race, the numbers gets even more skewed for Black Americans.
See, this is how and why I tend to be very skeptical of stuff like so and so blog cranks out, because I know for a fact they ain’t checking for people like me, which is a huge slice of the American demographic pie.
O.
Again, none of this is theoretical for me, and as Ms. Elspeth is reading along I am sure she can confirm or deny this. My own parents are a case in point.
This is true. I have written extensively in the past about the fact that women have always worked and that feminism was primarily a hobby of UMC women.
My mother who died as a very young woman, was an entrepeneur. My dad graduated high school in 1949. His mother was adamant that he finish. He always worked at least two jobs, often three, and actually used the influx on UMC women into the workforce as a springboard for my mother’s business.
We lived in an all black town sandwiched between two fairly wealthy white suburbs of the city we lived in. My father bought a building on the borderline between the two and my mother ran a daycare where those women would leave their kids when they went off to work their half-day hobby jobs. Because empowerment!
That’s fine; just as I don’t see it as my priority to “hold other Brotha’s accountable” for the things they do (rape in its various permutations, street harassment, et al), since I don’t do that.
When have you ever read (ever) anywhere that I have said productive black men are responsible to hold other black men accountable? I haven’t. I do think we should do our part in our sphere of influence. For me that’s daughters, nieces, female cousins, etc. Young women in my sphere of influence.
I’d hope you would do the same. But don’t accuse me of saying you owe black men as a class anything because I haven’t.
@SFC Ton 200:
“The war on child labor is a war on working class folk”
O: The youth unemployment rate has been and continues to be skyhigh – something like over 30% last time I checked. And that in my view, is a crucial aspect of being able to move oneself up in the world, no matter where you fall on the SES or Race scale. Both sexes need it, but in my view this is especially important for the boys – they should be either at school or at work. For me, it was both – when I wasn’t in school, I was working with my dad, rehabbing homes, tearing down others, and doing various jobs in his small contracting business. I began doing that at a very early age – I think I was about 10 or so – and back then I would basically be a gopher, getting my dad his tools and carrying stuff around, etc. In that way, I learned what all the tools were and how they were to be used. Over time, I learned about the various jobs and got to be pretty good in doing many of them, too.
And I made GOOD MONEY too – enough to finance my turntablism habit, LOL. Got all the latest sneakers and warmup suits, too. You name it – Nike, Puma, Adidas, I had em all. I got my very first car by making money with my dad – a 1975 Buick Electra 225 – what the oldheads used to call “a Duece & a Quarter”. That car cost me about $1K USD and was one of the best investments I ever made. I drove it for several years before I got another car. I was about 19 at the time, working for another major contracting company in the Kensington section of the city, but still working with my dad on the weekends. Oh, and my “straight” job I got through my pop-pop, I was literally “grandfathered in”.
So yea, I agre with your assessment. We are destroying the youth bigtime.
O.
What you are failing to grasp Elspeth is strong, firm and loving doesn’t get the job done with most chicks. If it does, then he is in the upper levels of looks.
Perhaps, and my guy is good looking, but I don’t necessarily agree. The point of contention that jf12 and I ran into is his assertion that a man who is firm with his wife is basically treating her badly.
@Ms. Elspeth:
” We lived in an all black town sandwiched between two fairly wealthy white suburbs of the city we lived in. My father bought a building on the borderline between the two and my mother ran a daycare where those women would leave their kids when they went off to work their half-day hobby jobs. Because empowerment!”
O: You know what, you make a very powerful point – the daycarre business, then and now, is huge. It’s a very lucrative way for ladies in particular to make a living, and several of them on my block have converted their homes into daycares. Then there’s at least half a dozen around the corner from me. Big, big business!
” When have you ever read (ever) anywhere that I have said productive black men are responsible to hold other black men accountable? I haven’t. I do think we should do our part in our sphere of influence. For me that’s daughters, nieces, female cousins, etc. Young women in my sphere of influence.
I’d hope you would do the same. But don’t accuse me of saying you owe black men as a class anything because I haven’t.”
O: All fair points. You aside, there is an undeniable meme that Men must hold each other accountable for thus and so, but Women cannot be held to account in a similar manner. That, not you, was what I was responding to.
O.
@ 203
For me it was tobacco and then tobacco/ hauling crab pots. Though I did bail hay and push horses on occasion.
Took me a while to like horses as an adult.
@Ms. Elspeth:
One more thing – recently you talked about a convo you and your hubbie were having about your younger days, and he told you the truth, which led you to take up running in the very early morning hours.
Let me say this:
While it is true that we all age, it is NOT true that all Men will find an older lady automatically unattractive; a lot depends on a lot of factors, chief among them being her own genetics and just as importantly, how well she’s taken care of herself. In your case, a Sista who’s had 5 chirrens, you’re in very good shape and condition from what I saw, and most Brothas in your age range would not have a problem with you in that regard. In fact, given the evidence as best we have it, like Ms. Bloom, you’re definitely a cut above average for most Southern Sistas in your age cohort, regardless as to the number of kids they’ve had, but all the moreso if we’re to do an apples to apples comparison. I think your hubby knows this as he sounds like both a very sharp and pragmatic Man.
As you’ve said several times yourself, the singlemost important thing Sistas in particular, and Women in general can do to keep their looks as they age, is to control their weight. That don’t mean you got to be running before the cock crows, LOL. It simply means keeping a figure. Being active and watching what you eat are the two biggest factors there, factors that are a definite issue for many Black WOmen especially.
There will always be younger, tighter Big Ole Booties out there; every Brotha knows this. And every Brotha also knows that they come with their own sets of problems and challenges, not to mention the fact that there is always another Bigger Brotha lurking around the corner as well. The trick is to get the best deal on the market you can find, lock it down and work on making and keeping it the best deal you can find. In this regard, it seems that you and your hubbie have won the jackpot.
I think you’re doing about as best as can be expected given the circumstances – look let’s face it, you’d be the loneoutlier if you were to openly speak your mind IRL among the Sistahood, and which can do damage if not to you and your hubbie, to your kids. So focusing on a small blog of likeminded folks, and pulling a Sista’s coat here andthere on the quiet, along with working with your own girls, is probably the most practical and pragmatic thing to do. On the larger level, Brothas are going to have to make it happen, because for better or for worse, the Herd is Real and Sistas just not gonna break ranks like that, for good reason(s).
O.
@Ms. Alte:
” Aren’t mixed chicks generally exceptionally attractive? The ones I see here, in Europe, are all quite beautiful.”
O: Not necessarily; because for females having lighter skin and keener facial features is associated with beauty, A biracial Black Woman does have a “leg up” in the mating market – much as a taller Man does. But that in and of itself, doesn’t “pretty” make.
I’ve seen my fair share of fairer-skinned Sistas, and not all of them are stunners, let me tell you, LOL. A lot depends on the luck of the genetic draw. In fact that’s often a bete noir for quite a few darker Sistas – how lighter skinned Sistas can still mate well despite not being all that attractive. Well, now you know why…
O.
@SFC Ton, Sumo:
” All’s well with me Sumo. American Kenpo did ok in the early days of MMA, but faded, not as quickly as the others and ircc one of the “early” to remove marital arts bsery. I see the early days of MMA as a live “combat” lab/ experiment. Highly eye opening and confirming what guy like me had been saying for…… well probably way before I was kicking.”
O: Kenpo’s a pretty good system. I’ll not discuss the hows and whys it faded out of the MMA/UFC circuit, but I think it’s pretty good as an all-around system of self-defence. It’s well suited for the street, practical, fairly easy to learn and use. It was one of Bruce Lee’s “base” arts, forming the basis of his Jeet-Kune-Do. In fact, having chatted to Sumo a bit about it, I might investigate it further, and incorporate a bit of its simple moves into my own “MMA” styles (American Boxing, Keysi Fighting Method, Pektisi-Tirsia Kali, Single-Stick Escrima, a smattering of Hapkido for Cane). That’s pretty much what I do – take what I consider to be the best bits and pieces of existing styles and form them into my own style.
O.
“As you’ve said several times yourself, the singlemost important thing Sistas in particular, and Women in general can do to keep their looks as they age, is to control their weight.”
Yes, this is crucial. I see a lot of women, even here in Germany, who discount this. They’re crazy.
Older women (and I include myself) — especially black ones — can actually have totally banging bodies that appeal to older men because they fill out nicely in childbearing. But then they get fat. I’m thinner now than I was when we met, and I know Hubby appreciates that.
Most women just give up.
#175 “she actually comes closer to Jigga in looks. Only someone who is ideologically blinkered would say such a thing”
I’ll say it if you won’t. Only a jealous white woman who wants to tear her down would even thing of saying such a thing.
#208 as an example, Meeks’ sister is quite unattractive.
Maybe only the gorgeous ones register for me. LOL
I do think that it’s undeniable that the pretty ones attract a disproportionate amount of male attention, although that’s probably more pronounced over here because of the novelty-factor.
Also, bodies: slender, but unbelievably curvy. It’s like it makes men’s brains short-circuit.
#204 “The point of contention that jf12 and I ran into is his assertion that a man who is firm with his wife is basically treating her badly.”
No, I contend that being firm doesn’t *work* per se, but treating her badly does work.
#190 I appreciate the sentiment. “It seems to you to be hard to believe that a man can be strong and firm, but loving.”
No, it’s very easy. But it doesn’t *work*.
Maybe we just have a different definition of “bad treatment”.
@Sumo:
Didn’t know you was a mall cop! Did you see Tommy Sotomayor’s series of videos on ATL Mall Cop Darien Long?
http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=NgusAdsME9Q
O.
@ 209
I simply look at the UFC/ MMA world, which the usa was behind the power curve. It most certainly doesn’t transfer 100% to self-defense but you get a damn good idea of what works against an opponent who is fighting back vs following a script/ being a human sand bag. The early days of UFC are the best laboratory I can think of and it played out here like it did in Brazil, Holland and where have you. Traditionalist lost; boxers, kick boxers and ground fighters won. So much so that they created a new fighting system that has no “art” to it.
Jeet Kune Do use to get a lot of play but I’ve never seen it win a fight outside a Burce Lee movie.
Th other thing to consider is who you are going up against. Just being fit, aggressive, mostly sober with a decent right hand will be enough to settle issues with a drunk frat boy. It’s when the other guy is experienced in actual violence that what we’re talking about comes into play.
There is a tendency to dismiss street thugs as non trained. Which is bull$hit. My neighbour did a total of 15 years for various distribution charges and the corresponding altercations. He has no formal training but he knows what he’s about. And there really is no shortage of men like that
@ Obsidian
most Women worked in some capacity
I agree that most married women at some point in their marriages did part-time, occasional work outside the home. Full-time, not so much, until WW2. And most women were married up to WW2.
I don’t know about how much black women worked full-time. Would it depend on how solid marriages were in the black community? Would that vary with time? Didn’t black marriage rates grow until a certain point, then recede?
Even with solid marriages, black wives had to work. Black men were paid less so they needed the extra incomes that their wives provided.
@ Alte, Obsidian
Before WWI, women outnumbered men because of teacher’s colleges
I don’t that that this is supported by the data.
http://www.pbs.org/fmc/book/3education2.htm
Women didn’t become half of college grads until WW2, then dropped precipitously afterwards because of the GI Bill. They again reached parity in the 70s. Now they outnumber men maybe because college is a money pit and men are tending to avoid it because it adds debt without necessarily increasing income.
@ Elspeth 220
Even with solid marriages, black wives had to work. Black men were paid less so they needed the extra incomes that their wives provided.
Yes, I get this, but how much did they work? Full time? I have no doubt that black women worked more than white women. Still, “how much” is a key question.
@Elspeth and Obsidian:
Just thought I’d cosign this. I go all week long with no interaction with black people who aren’t in my immediate family.
I don’t think it’s a priority of mine to be seen to promote the idea that not all black women are beasties.
Me: Yes, it is not my place to reach out, because the lack of common language would make me irrelevant, ie., older than 35, married, bougie, no out of wedlock children, mixed marriage, “privileged, can’t relate, etc., etc….” Now, modeling that in my own family, friends, and community, that is another matter, and I do model that, just by being me.
As for expecting black men to call out the knuckleheads, I remember that came up in the course of the woman who complained that men needed to step up and save her from harassment, ie., she was in a ghetto club and was accosted, etc. My response, was, what the hell was she doing in a ghetto joint as a single woman? No woman should ever set foot in such a place. She needed to be at home with her husband or in some safe non-ghetto joint where that would not be an issue.
@ASD Gamer:
Marriages in Black America were both high and quite stable until the latter 60s or so; by the year 2000 they were literally a shadow of its former self. Quite a few academics, Black and White, have discussed this: Hymowitz, Sowell, McWhorter, you name it.
The reason why Black Women worked and/or owned ran small businesses is easy: because Black Men often weren’t able to support a family on their earnings alone. Jim Crow and racism were very real things back then, even for Black Men who were educated, that was no guarantor of success. For example, take the Pullman Porters – many of them were highly educated Brothas coming out of some of the best HBCUs, like Howard and Morehouse. But they couldn’t find work in their fields of education and had to take work as porters on the trains. Their wives did nanny and domestic work back home to supplement their incomes. Some, as Ms. Elspeth pointed out, did what we today would call daycare work, especially if they were in a position to have their own space to keep a number of kids at one time – either in their own house, or if they had a building for it, etc.
Black Women have always worked, although admittedly not with the kind of earnings power and prestige afforded many Sistas today in the professions. Having said that, most Brothas then or now, don’t have much in the way of prestige or earnings. In fact most Brothas earn, at best, a relatively weak five-figures a year, and that’s before the taxes come out. The Black UMC, which is defined in the main as having professional degrees, work in the professions and make in excess of $100K USD/year, makes up only 1% of the current Black USA population(!).
Think about that for a moment.
This is how and why, by the way, that I have always said that it is folly for Brothas to keep this notion of Black Women enmasse being “gold diggers” – it’s just not true, not because of them being so altruistic, but because there simply ain’t high-earning Brothas to go around. I intend to write more about this soon, so stay tuned.
At any rate, #TheNarrative has gone on for far too long about Feminism and the like. History is no longer written by its putative victors, because thanks to the Internet, other voices can not only be heard, but have a real voice in the public square, and just may sway the debate. As Ms. Elspeth has rightly noted, from the rip Feminism was a White and UMC Thang – Black WOmen, and White and other Women who weren’t well off, alays had to work and always enjoyed more egalitarian relations with their Menfolk for very pragmatic reasons: survival being among them. No Man worth his salt would treat a Woman of his who is bringing real bennies to the table at a time when times were hard for a Man – especially a Brotha – badly. It just wouldn’t make sense – see SFC Ton’s example of farm life in the mountain regions of the States and the South, for example. Sure, there were knuckleheads who went upside their Womens’ heads, but they were relatively few and far between. For one thing, it was almost a certainty that he’d run afoul of her people. ANd second, like I said, she’s bringing money and resources into the home as well. Just doesn’t make sense.
This is how and why I ask, “What Has Feminism Done For The Blue Collar Brotha?”, because as I’ve said, all the Sistas I’ve known worked, or owned their own businesses, again along the lines Ms. Elspeth suggested, etc. Black Women have always been able to chose their own spouses. And while the Pill and Abortion on Demand are relatively new things, if a Sista found herself in a situation, she could get rid of that, too, with minimal interference from Brothas. Again, Ms. Elspeth and other Blacks of similar age (late 30s-latter 40s) can vouch for me on these points.
None of that is to say that nothing good has come of Feminism; I’ll be the first to concede that there has been some good to come of it. But the notion that Women were just a step above slavery is laughable to Black Women like my grandmother, who despite having a sixth grade education owned several businesses, landed property that included a small apartment block and half a dozen houses, and live in one of the most beautiful homes in North Philly. The idea that she was being kept down by the Patriarchy, or that Racism was holding her back, is BUNK.
And that’s why I bristle at the notion hold forth by those like the unmentionable blog we’re talking about, that unless you have a degree you’re doomed. I’ve seen too many examples where that is simply NOT the case.
What you DO have to be is:
1. Smart
2. Hard-working
And most importantly
3. Partner with a Man/Woman who shares your values and vision for the future
You do that, and you WILL make it – meaning, having your own home, nice car(s) and other trappings of solid, middle class life as is currently understood in America.
NONE of my siblings went to college BEFORE they met their hubbies; they only went YEARS AFTER getting married. They got married FIRST, had their kids FIRST, and established homes and lives FIRST, THEN went back to school. Nor are their hubbies college educated – they too work in the trades (being a barber is considered a trade). One of my sisters’ hubbies is a career barber. He does LOTS of business because, as anyone who knows anything about Black America will tell you, Black folks like to have their hair did, that goes for both sexes. My other BIL has a tow-truck and limo driving business, and he is constantly on the move.
My older brother, before he passed away, was a contractor and did light construction and landscaping work; his bosses took an immediate liking to him and as a result, made foreman on the job in no time. Together with his wife, who also ran a daycare out of their home(!), they bought a huge place in Mt. Airy – look it up. If you’re Black and in Philly with any aspirations of “moving on up” like the Jeffersons, you wanted to be in Mt. Airy. It’s where John McWhorter is from.
One of Ms. Elspeth’s commenters hit the nail on the head: Feminism is a way for otherwise homely Women to get a foot hold in society. If you’re a Woman and even passably attractive not only will you attract suitors you will also have a shot at building a nice life for yourself. Only the really congenitally challenged ladies are up against it.
O.
The point of contention that jf12 and I ran into is his assertion that a man who is firm with his wife is basically treating her badly.
I understand where jf12 is coming from, but my reaction to his concern, based on my own experience, is basically “so what?”
I don’t need to remind anyone here that the default behaviorial mode of Norte Amerikanas, married or not (and of all races and ethnic backgrounds) is, in a word, “feral.” This manifests itself in ways that require adjectives such as “impulsive,” “juvenile,” “disrespectful,” “contentious,” and “reckless.” That is, behaviors that require what can most generously and kindly be described as “a heaping helping of ‘corrective asshole’.”
Like jf12, I would prefer that this was not the case, that marriage was a partnership of loving, mature adult equals. In fact, up until a couple of years ago, I lived my own marriage as if this was the case because the reality was just too unpleasant for someone of my upbringing (i.e., sheltered churchian “women-are-all-sugar-and-spice-nice-girls” nonsense). But it’s not, as reality decided to finally teach me, in some very unpleasant ways (and is still teaching me, as if to make up for decades of lost time).
Sfcton nailed it upthread when he said that no man is “equally yoked” in his marriage. The only way he could be is if he was married to another man. Yes, wives can be loving, submissive, cooperative, and pleasant – but only when the mood strikes them and only on their own terms. It is not their default state (and no, there will be no “NAWALT” caveat here for the few exceptions we all know of, since they know who they are and none is necessary). To assume that this exception mode is the norm is to court diaster, which is what I discovered a couple of years ago and what jf12 is discovering now.
As others have said here ad nauseum, the red pill is a giant tablet with jagged edges that chokes you on its way down and that tastes like shit. The alternative might not taste as bad and might go down easier, but its long term side effects are lethal. To use a trite phrase that I can’t stand, but that applies fully here: “it is what it is.”
@theasdgamer
What is the argument you are challenging? Or are you trying to clarify the factual basis of something? Assortative mating perhaps?
I ask in earnest. I’ve fallen down the rabbit hole and can’t remember where this trail was going.
#225 yeah
Had my first cup of coffee and I feel up to some simple arithmetic.
How many “likes” are there for Meeks by now?
Let’s figure there are 150 million women in the country. One tenth of one percent would be 150,000.
Let’s say that one in a hundred who are impressed would “like” Meeks as an action on the web.
And let’s say that that we’re up to 50,000 who “liked” him. Given these assumptions–make up your own–we’re up to 5 million who got the tingles. IOW, 96% didn’t.
Certainly got under some guys’ collars, though, didn’t it?
Another one. We had 800,000 guys die in the Civil War. Most were, as was the case prior to WW I, a matter of disease. So we don’t have a multiplier to figure how many more were crippled into social and economic uselessness. Given contemporary medicine, let’s say an additional 50%.
And now we have approximately ten times the population. So that would be the equivalent of eight million dead guys and four million crippled guys today, almost all ranging from age eighteen to, say, thirty-two out of the SMP.
Outside of a reference to “boston marriage” in the book “Iron Bravo”, I have never seen anybody then or later discussing the SMP. But that was a huge distortion.
And as I said on HUS, looking at the pix of the guys in those days, it looked as if we killed a disproportionate number of high-T guys.
Where’s the despairing commentary? Where are the “studies” today about those days?
So we have a world-ending problem today based on….the hippies of the Sixties or something?
My takeaway from this and other items is that one should figure out the woman in front of you and forget the Big Numbers purporting to tell us something about women in general and the woman in front of you.
Redneck thugs too.
http://news.msn.com/crime-justice/mans-plea-deal-includes-vasectomy-requirement
#216 No. It’s easy to define. Bad treatment means hurting the woman sufficiently so that she fears being hurt again. Very easy.
Gammer, @’that level work is work. Might be one day watching kids at x, one day doing laundry @ y or clerking three hours @ abc
Work for lots of folks was catch as catch can
Given the difference in labor markets I am not sure there is an amswer for your question but lots of folks family history proves out women working or running bidness
Hey Rich,
Several things.
1. You have to take statistical sampling into account; what would that putative 5% represent? 20%? 50%? 75%
2. I think there has been some passing mentions in the post-Civil War hist-lit about these things, just not as detailed as discussions going on today in our time. I think if one of us took the time to dig around, we’d find some Red Pills in there too.
3. Without a doubt there is the general and there is the particular. In my view, they should always been seen as related, not completely separate.
4. The reason as to how and why the Meeks issue got a lot of guys hot and bothered isn’t because of Meeks per se, but that he is in many ways, the straw that broke the camels’ back – it is just one more in a long trail of evidence, anecdotal yes, but evidence nevertheless, that is playing itself out on the Jumbotron of American life at this time. When stuff like this was more localized, people could immediate dismiss it. Now that the Internet is on the scene, it’s getting harder and harder to dismiss it. One of the reasons J4G exists, is to chronicle, indeed even curate, all of these “cracks” in the Matrix.
OK, your turn…
O.
Sfcton 231:
Exactly – yet another reason as to how and why I am very leery of #TheNarrative, for preciselyh the reasons you just explained to ASD Gamer. What it means to work today, didn’t quite mean the same things it did yesterday in the minds of those who are part of the Cathedral’s congregation.
That still doesn’t change the fact that the vast majority of WOmen over the course of American history, worked. Often quite hard.
O.
Feminism is a way for otherwise homely Women to get a foot hold in society.
“24. Feminism was established so as to allow unattractive women access to the mainstream of society.” -Rush Limbaugh
http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=C3DuTW5gHIU
A bit upthread Doclove, a Chitown native, talked a bit about ann incident he knew of that went down in the Humboldt Park area. The above YouTube link is a video commentary by Tommy Sotomayor that discusses a Father’s Day weekend(!) where some 52 people were shot. Several died of their injuries.
Check it out…they don’t call it “Chiraq” for nothin…
O.
Also,
“16. Women should not be allowed on juries where the accused is a stud. (In response to the hung jury in the Menendez brothers trial) “-Rush Limbaugh, updated undeniable truths of life.
#236 also, women should not be allowed on juries where the accused is a nerd. Basically, women cannot be trusted.
“My takeaway from this and other items is that one should figure out the woman in front of you and forget the Big Numbers purporting to tell us something about women in general and the woman in front of you.”
Obs pretty much has it right, but I’ll run at this a little more pithily:
You will never be able to “figure out” the woman in front of you unless you first understand women generally.
That woman in front of you is a woman, meaning she is subject to the same generally applicable rules which apply to all women. Sure, she might be an outlier, and perhaps, if you’re lucky, a few of those generally applicable principles won’t apply to her. But most of those principles WILL apply to her. When you know the generally applicable principles, you’ll be able to figure out which ones apply to her (most of them) and which don’t.
“The reason as to how and why the Meeks issue got a lot of guys hot and bothered isn’t because of Meeks per se, but that he is in many ways, the straw that broke the camels’ back”
Yes, but more to the point, as the consequences for thug love fall away, more and more women embrace thugs and dickbags.
Formerly, there were real consequences even for open expression of attraction to thugs, layabouts and otherwise worthless men. Now, there are none. So women are increasingly open about their attraction to good looking bad boys. And why not? She won’t bear any consequences for it. She has her own money, or Daddy’s credit card. She has her own “career”, friends, apartment, etc. So there are no longer any adverse consequences to a “relationship” with Fuckbuddy Rockbanddrummer.
“Working outside the home” in Womanese pretty much means “having a fancy office job that makes me completely independent from some icky beta”.
Adverse Consequences would be a cool blackknight gamertag.
I’ve done a lot of self work in hacking zombies and burning thornbushes to get to the threshold of the blackknight’s castle. But I’m still hesitant to try the magic key in my pants to see if it fits the door.
“One of Ms. Elspeth’s commenters hit the nail on the head: Feminism is a way for otherwise homely Women to get a foot hold in society.”
Homely women didn’t have a foothold in society before feminism? What does that exactly mean? They couldn’t get jobs?
@ 228
Thats what I did worked on the woman in front of me. What an error in judgement that was because yes all women are like that. The woman you marry is not really the woman you marry etc until a few years down the road.
In no other endeavor is a man expected to ingore the statistical trends
@239
Indeed, the very real risk of starvation, and the actuality of being a charity case were powerful motivators toward responsible behavior. Toss is in a lot of shame, shunning, and judgement and you got a real functioning social safety net. One that protects society from the bad consequences of individual actions.
#244 Negative Reinforcement (another cool blackknight gamertag) appears to be a much more effective way to keep women in line than trying to make them want to be in line.
@ 228
That 96% of the women did not respond favorably to Meeks means nothing. It could mean 96% of them haven’t seen his photo, or don’t dig his vibe, or don’t have the cash to donate or haven’t been on facebook for a week or any one of a million other reasons
“Bad treatment means hurting the woman sufficiently so that she fears being hurt again.”
That’s a good rule. I was thinking more along the lines of cheating or spending the grocery money on booze.
Meeks’ siblings, including his brother Bryan Varela, do not share last names. This is probably a clue to his childhood situation.
Meek’s wife, who has two passing (is that a too-offensive description?) children with him, evidently has not publically supported him or visited him in prison or court since his latest arrest.
#247 I guess it depends if cheating or boozing would hurt sufficiently.
Couple of thoughts:
The first is that I “misspoke” when I said I go all week without seeing any other black people. There’s an African couple in our homeschool co-op. The husband is a physicist from Cameroon. Do they count, LOL?
But I really wanted to reply to this, while I have a minute:
Bad treatment means hurting the woman sufficiently so that she fears being hurt again.
I think jf12’s contention is that this is patently unChristian behavior. For example, once I was on the phone with my husband and I snapped at him or was disrespectful or something. It’s been a while.
His response was basically, “You will not speak to me like that. See ya when I get home (whenever I decide that is) and don’t call me back because I don’t want to speak to you until I get home; in person.” Click.
Of course I tested it by calling him back. Like three times. No answer and I didn’t hear form him until he got home. And it did hurt. And he hasn’t had much of a problem in the years since with me being disrespectful or short with him on the phone. In other words, it worked.
But jf12 would say that what he had to do to get said future good behavior was unloving and not in keeping with Christian kindness. I disagree and say that it was a quick lesson in the saying, “Behavior accepted is behavior repeated.”
In the short term it hurt, but now I can see that it was actually the most loving thing he could have done for me because I learned to behave, and as I learned to behave with regularity, he actually was more tolerant of me when I lapsed because it is so rare.
UnChristain is the probaly better route to keeping a woman. Again unless you are one good looking dude, then……. Whatever
According to the Bible, it is incumbent upon Christians to hold back from outwardly appearing to be bad boys in all the many ways one could outwardly appear to be bad. This means, among other things, it is completely wrong to dress and act thug, which still being a good man down deep somewhere.
Their motto: “When in doubt, blame a man.”
So true. As evidenced by Sheryl Sandberg new book, “Lean In, Fall Flat on My Face, Blame a Man”
“”Let’s say that one in a hundred who are impressed would “like” Meeks as an action on the web.””
O, ton.
That’s from my math. Multiplying by 100 is how I got my numbers.
Really, how much IQ does it take to not spend your time liking crazy shit on the web?
Analogy, wrt breaking the camel’s back:
Every time you see a pro football game, some guys are drunk and fighting in the stands. Say it’s one percent of the fans. After 100 games, do we have 100% of the fans drunk and fighting? No. It’s the same damn cohort.
Ditto the flakes who “liked” Meeks. They liked Ted Bundy, samesame any other lowlife with either charm or good cheekbones. Same damn’ cohort.
ton, did you get/like the southern highlanders book?
According to the Bible, it is incumbent upon Christians to hold back from outwardly appearing to be bad boys in all the many ways one could outwardly appear to be bad. This means, among other things, it is completely wrong to dress and act thug, which still being a good man down deep somewhere.
I agree 100%.
@252
Good thing Jesus never read the Bible.
Sure, you should know about women–stats and whatnot.
So what?
Analogy alert: You’re in a restaurant with a woman. You know all women like to eat. It’s how we stay alive. Because she’s still alive and thus not dead of anorexia, you figure she’s okay with eating.
If that’s all you know, you want to take a guess at what she’ll order?
So, even presuming she’s hypergamic/ous, how are you going to know how that propensity is going to manifest itself? The world is full, to your certain knowledge due to direct experience, of women who manifested it in any number of ways, or none.
I think jf12 was referring to playacting as if you’re more thuggish for the purpose of attracting women when you’re not.
I agree because we are supposed to be authentic, and as we grow as believers, we’re supposed to change for the better…authentically.
But maybe I miusnderstood.
“One of Ms. Elspeth’s commenters hit the nail on the head: Feminism is a way for otherwise homely Women to get a foot hold in society.”
Well, I suppose they can more easily get f-ed now. Marriage prospects are probably worse. I am not sure that this was what they were looking for.
@Deti:
You know what, you make a very powerrful point – and I’mreminded of Charles Murray’s book “Coming Apart”. In it, he argues that we need to bring back the shaming of bums and layabout guys who won’t work etc. But nothing is said about shaming the Women who Love Them(TM) – and if Meeks proves anything, there are A LOT of (Black) WOmen who love these guys.
It is very, very telling that no such commentary is being heard over this issue by the Cathedral, now isn’t it?
O.
#250 thanks but I’m not yet up to nuance today. I don’t agree that there is compassionately lovingly kind Dread, for example. And I know for a fact there is no way I could have hurt a woman I was actually in love with. I’ll unify here some thoughts I had scattered elsewhere.
Paul says there is a distinction between approaching in Love or in Dread, and he gives the Corinthians a choice.
1 Cor 4:21 What will ye? shall I come unto you with a rod, or in love, and in the spirit of meekness?
Seriously, only a moron would choose the rod. “I’m so thankful that you are stern with me!”
Jude could be read (I’m trying to) as advising that when compassion ain’t doing the trick, then use dread.
Jude 1:22-23 And of some have compassion, making a difference: And others save with fear, pulling them out of the fire; hating even the garment spotted by the flesh.
Jesus advises making bone of your bone, flesh of your flesh, hurt bad if it offends. Strike hard and hack off your eye or hand or foot. And when that part is stricken it rots, and not in love.
#258 You understood correctly. The purple pill eater people seem to be advising the mere *appearance* of being bad in order to instill soft dread.
@Rich Aubrey:
Again, you haven’t taken statistical sampling into account; assuming your example is correct, how many Women would that 5% truly represent?
Moreover, you are assuming that the ONLY people who fight at games, are the “chavs” – when it is not aat all unusual for others to get into a fight with said chavs, because they could have gotten hit by accident, etc. Same deal with Meeks – how many times have we all heard a Woman say “he’s not my type, BUT…I don’t normally do this, BUT…”?
All it takes is one time, Rich.
Sure, I can totally buy that not all Women will go along. But that’s not the point.
In an uncertaiin social world where people can and do live in the millions in crowded urban centers, and where evidence mounts that there is no one looking out for the mating wefare of guys, guys have to be very diligent in doing their own homework. At the very least, I would be extremely wary of Women known to get down with the Meeks’ of the world.
And they’re more of them than we’re willing to publicly admit.
As the Meeks story shows.
O.
On another note, and in light of Ms. Elspeth and others taking up the Meeks issue in their own corner of the Internet in as many days, I gotta say that I find it fascinating that so many Churched folks are turning to Game and EvoPsych for answers that, apparently, cannot be found within their own church environment. It just says to me, that Game and EvoPsych, are truly Universal in scope, application and meaning. To say nothing of evidence.
O.
shaming of bums and layabout guys who won’t work etc. But nothing is said about shaming the Women who Love Them
Charles Murray gets enough flak from the PC crowd without bringing that up. It is up to all ofus to do the shaming of sluts.
Seriously, only a moron would choose the rod. “I’m so thankful that you are stern with me!”
Wow. That was some kind of insult. Moron? So our adult children who thanked us for disciplining them as children are morons? Was I a moron when I thanked my father for it when I grew up into maturity?
I was raised in a home where emotions did not trump all. They were at best secondary. I don’t do mushy. I do results, so perhaps that’s our disconnect.
But let’s look at Scripture since you think I’m a moron:
“For the moment all discipline seems painful rather than pleasant, but later it yields the peaceful fruit of righteousness to those who have been trained by it.”
Why you think I was desirous of “the rod” is beyond me. What I do know is that love devoid of accountability is not love. I don’t care how you slice it. What you are describing is romantic infatuation, not love in the purest sense.
Love doesn’t feel good all the time. And you assume that a man who holds his woman to account doesn’t love her because you assume he enjoys holding her to account with consequences for her actions. If my husband is not in love he is putting on a hell of a good act.
I know that my husband doesn’t enjoy holding my feet to the fire (he’s said so). I certainly don’t enjoy spanking my children, but I do it. Because I love them.
Your romanticism that you have used to define love, which you have also used to define Christian love, is not the fullness of love at all. It’s a part of it, yes. But not all of it.
In your mind, God is using dread on us. If we are not in Christ, and obedient, we risk Hell’s fire. Is that dread game?
No, husbands are not God. But I would argue that a man who lets his wife run rough shod over him is the one who is not in love with her. Not every man has the kind of dominant personality that mine does, but NO MAN should give his wife the reins, let her act like a raving lunatic, or treat him as if their family and marriage is indifferent, and then call it love.
#266 “Why you think I was desirous of “the rod” is beyond me.”
Ok. I apologize.
“What you are describing is romantic infatuation”
Correct. aka “in love”, aka limerence.
“I certainly don’t enjoy spanking my children, but I do it.”
Yes, but not while “in love” with them. “ooh widdle snookums etc”
“If we are not in Christ, and obedient, we risk Hell’s fire. Is that dread game?”
Yes.
Wow, hell of a lot of cmments on this one. Been out for a while. Bacehlor Party this past weekend. Ran into a Bachelorette Party…a greater display of selfie-obsessed Narcissism I have never seen.
We also ran into only two attractive girls the ENTIRE night. So sad. So devastatingly sad. Two of my Groomsman danced with them for one song…tried to close…and they ran off giggling.
Few more weeks to go.
Anyways:
We’re talking a lot about civilization, and we all know about the big civilization collapse (Rome). usually undermentioned and understudied is the Bronze Age Collapse, a full 1500 years prior to the collapse of Rome. It’s actually a MUCH bigger deal: the Sea People barbarians burned pretty much EVERY city and destroyed EVERY culture, from Greece to Turkey to Iraq to Egypt.
Civilization more or less ended.
Anyways, there’s an interesting theory about this, related to Hamsterization, called the “Bicameral Mind.” Pre-Classical Humans may have lacked the ability to introspect at all and had a huge, unbridgeable divide between their “logic” and the way they actually “saw” the world.
What this means practically: you know that little voice in your head? Preclassical humans (think the first Jews, Sumerians, Ancient Egyptians) would not have thought of it as “thinking to themselves.” they would have experienced it as God Speaking to Them, literally.
They would essentially be little more than zombies thinking God is talking to them all the time. The modern residual to this is “speaking in tongues.”
Theoreticaly, that’s how ERRRRRRBODDDDYYYY was back in the time of Pharaoh. This may have produced the bronze age collapse: they couldn’t think and could not adapt to changing conditions.
Obviously this has huge implications for the way we think about the SMP. We may be undergoing a similar change today. In terms of logical thinking. Ex: All Grizzly Bears are Bears. All Bears eat Birds. Do Grizzly Bears eat birds? In the pre-Flynn Effect society, normal farmers would hem and haw about whether they have ever seen a bear, whether bears exist, and how can a bear eat a bird? I only see bears eat berries and fish.
This is the first generation smart enough to have a sizable number of people answer questions like that. IOW, the first generation smart enough to have most people pass algebra.
Obvious parallels to hamsterization, but really more broadly applicable in terms of neuro-diversity. Hallucinatons, for instance….
Yes, but not while “in love” with them. “ooh widdle snookums etc”
Well no. I’m not sexually attracted to my children. I am extremely sexually attracted to my husband.
But the depth of emotion I have felt for my children since the day the doctor laid each of the 5 of them on my chest is strong, and true, and real and visceral. And any parent who can spank their children and not feel even the slightest pang of grief for the fact that they have to do it, well…
But didn’t you allude to the fact that you’re not particularly in love with your own wife. You grieve for your first love or something you told me once.
So is it your understanding of Christian love that keeps you from holding her accountable when it’s needed?
And that’s another thing. Why do I get the impression that you picture dominant husbands as fire breathing dragons terrorizing their wives with threats and dread?
Is that what you think?
Oh one more thing jf12:
You know what made me go to my father and thank him for his sternness? when I saw what became of the vast majority of the other girsl in my neighborhood. I owed him big time.
You know why my girls thanked us? Partially due to the same things.
You know why I’m glad my husband loved me enough to hold me to account in those early years? I’ve seen the unhaaaapy women in and out of my family blow up their marriages. Heard the men complain about lack of sex while I still fervently desire my husband who doesn’t have to beg for sex. Seeing couples fighting and at odds because the wife wouldn’t “allow” the father to discipline his kids and the children grew up to be basket cases at best and menaces at worst.
The best part? Now, two decades in, my husband, a man of few words, uses those words to tell me how much he cherishes me and appreciates my support and respect, and all the ways I show it. He’s passionate about me, and people close to us can tell because they say can.
And yes, he is a strong Bible believing Christian, not a game proponent. He hates the very idea of game, thinks it’s foolishness.
If this ain’t love, what do you call it?
#270 yes, I call it love. Can I also call it not infatuation?
#269 “So is it your understanding of Christian love that keeps you from holding her accountable when it’s needed?”
Very good question, the “right” question. Unfortunately to me, the answer is no. I think what’s holding me back is feeling that she ought not to know, quite yet, that I’m no longer in love.
#269 btw re: snookums. I think the infatuation, for such it is, that mothers have for their children is what makes fathers so much better disciplinarians.
yes, I call it love. Can I also call it not infatuation?
Yeah, you can call it that. There was a time that would bother me, but I grew up. We’re still attracted to each other and we know that love trumps infatuation thousands of times over.
Marriage is not for the infatuated. It’s for lovers. Lovers of God, of one another, of family, of fidelity, and strong faith.
Aren’t you like 20 years older than me? You know this! Or you should.
@Ms. Elspeth:
Two questions:
1. What exactly, does your hubbie know of Game? What has he actually studied? Or is this just a knee jerk reactionary opinion of his misguided and ill-informed? I ask because very often, the strongest anti-Game types are the most ignorant. It’s like me talking smack about Christians and the Bible without actually studied any of it. Never read the Bible. You get the idea. So, I want to know exactly what enables your hubbie to say such a thing? If he hasn’t actually read what I’ve read then I would tell your hubbie, to his face, that his opinion is idiotic, and in my faith tradition, actually sinful.
2. Would your hubbie confirm or deny, that all living things have mating strategies? Yes, or no?
Your response?
O.
re: Example of a man feeling in love.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lvR1YgT7QYs
IOW thugs can’t do it.
I can’t speak for Jf12, but when I hear “dominant husband” I think of the super stern angry guy that everyone thinks is gonna snap. The husband that has his family in such a situation where it’s either doing what they say or you’re destitute. My own dad was like that, not with violence towards the rest of the family (although some to me. Another story for another time ) but with money. Threatening a financial and litigation hellstorm is an effective path to getting people to do what you want.
Jf12, I don’t know about marriage. I used to want to be, more than anything, but that has passed due to red pill awakening. But I wish you the best man . Try incorporating some Don draper attributes and see if that helps (not the cheating or alcoholism though). Just a random thought
I think of the super stern angry guy that everyone thinks is gonna snap. The husband that has his family in such a situation where it’s either doing what they say or you’re destitute. My own dad was like that, not with violence towards the rest of the family (although some to me. Another story for another time ) but with money. Threatening a financial and litigation hellstorm is an effective path to getting people to do what you want.
My husband is NOTHING like that. It’s just that in our house, his presence looms large. There’s none of that “If momma ain’t happy, no one’s happy” vibe. He’s not just a pack mule providing a pay check. He is the head of the family in every sense.
He works hard, and he doesn’t suffer an unproductive household. But he can be playful, and chill, and funny and all those good things.
The difference between a man like mine and many others is that he will not allow his wife to make him an afterthought in his own house. You know what I mean. Wife makes major decision and then says, “Oh honey. I thought I told you that”, knowing full well she didn’t. That wouldn’t happen here.
@ Obs:
Perhaps my husband doesn’t know enough about game to make an informed judgement. His knowledge is limited by his own choice.
We’ll leave it at that.
Example of a man feeling in love.
Well then I guess my husband is in love. I’ve heard some variation of these words on occasion. Whaddya know!
IOW thugs can’t do it.
Good thing I didn’t marry one. You insist on equating tough and no nonsense with thuggery.
Well, lunch break over. Thanks for the hospitality, Obs. As usual.
@Ms. Elspeth:
” Perhaps my husband doesn’t know enough about game to make an informed judgement. His knowledge is limited by his own choice.”
O: Which again, is idiotic. Nothing personal, I’m just sayin’. My faith tradition holds that it is the DUTY of all Believers, to seek and gain knowledge, even if it means going to China to get it. Having a visceral reaction one does not, by their own admission, know anything about, is NOT the mark of a reasonable person.
And, let’s get something else straight, right now:
It wasn’t the PUAs or Gamesmen (I consider myself the latter, as I was the one who first coined the phrase a few years back, quiet as its kept) that went looking for the Church, but the other way around. Regardless of what you or your hubbie may or may not think of Game, the fact is that there are scores of Churched Guys out there seeking it, which invariably, brings the Churched Ladies along wanting to find out what the hub bub is. And instead of seeing the insights of human mating discovered by EvoPsych and put into practice by practitioners of Game as the Godsend that it is, so many of them fight tooth and nail, clinging to a system that has proven itself to be an utter failure. The Black Church is a case in point, the most recent piece of evidence being the Rev. Jamal Bryant scandal, where he quoted a famed line from a Chris Brown song – and just look at the reaction of the congregation.
Big Man Culture, for the you know what Win, Again.
Wise people, when confronted with overwhelming evidence, change their tunes to align with said evidence; Foolish people cling to the same tune, regardless as to the evidence.
Choose this day you would be – Wise, or a Fool.
O.
O.
I multiplied the overt numbers by 100 to get my supposed cohort. So I figured, iow, that 99% of the dumbasses didn’t “like” the thing on whichever web thingy it was on, despite getting the tingles.
Going back to the restaurant analogy: You know she’s not against eating…. Now what?
You know that the woman across the table is hypergamous because they all are…. So what do you expect from HER, as opposed to what you hear on websites populated by guys with motivation and interest and who do research into studies?
I really do have to run Obs, but a quick reply and maybe I’ll be back later.
My husband never really had any trouble getting dates or garnering female interest. In fact he was on the receiving end of plenty of attention.
So maybe “ignorant” in the truest sense of the word, is an appropriate way to describe his game knowledge. Being himself was always more than enough and no small part of his way of relating to women (including his wife) would no doubt be considered “fame” around these parts. Mostly things he learned from his father, some good, some bad.
Maybe we can continue this later.
http://twerkflix.com/video/3793/maria-jade-dreams-and-nightmares-twerk-video/
I just got this in my Facebook feed – did you know there’s a such thing as Twerkflix? Yes, that’s right – the Twerkin’ version of Netflix.
The above video is of a lady by nae of Maria Jade; I’d be interested to know what the readers would have to say about it.
Comments?
O.
” I guess it depends if cheating or boozing would hurt sufficiently”
Well, every woman’s different. I have a high tolerance for physical and sexual violence, and I wouldn’t really mind the boozing unless I couldn’t make up the difference with my own income streams.
But I can’t handle disloyalty and cheating would drive me emotionally right over the edge. I don’t think I’d be able to recover from that.
@Rich Aubrey:
Yes, I get what you’re saying; you still have not answered my questioning. Per statistical sampling, what does your example represent? Or is it just 5% of the population? Why? Why should your back of the napkin after your first cup of joe simply mean that, and pro outfits like Gallup’s do not? Please explain?
O.
@Ms. Elspeth:
None of what you have said has addressed anything I
‘ve said. Your hubbies personal mating success is not in question here. In fact it is irrelevant, a red herring, a non-sequitur. I specifically asked what if any actual Game sources he has studied. You have confirmed that he hasn’t read anything on the topic. As someone who was also “taught” informally about the ladies, and who had mating success prior to discover formal Game, I cannot accept your hubbies opinion for the simple reason that it is uneducated, and unreasoned. Just like he nor any believing Christian would accept my misguided and ignorant opinion of the Bible. How can that be so hard to grok?
Looking forward to more discussion when you have the time. Perhaps you can explain to me how and why so many Churched folk are turning up in Red Pill sectors of the Internet wanting to learn more about Game and EvoPsych?
O.
“I disagree and say that it was a quick lesson”
Yeah, that’s just normal husbandry. Nobody expects a grown-ass man to put if with any crap. You have to be able to take him seriously.
If we’re talking about “hurting”, then I’d be more inclined to include being malicious. Like constantly telling you that you’re ugly and stupid.
@Ms. Alte 284:
So, you’re into Kink. Sounds about right to me, given all that you’ve said over the years. Besides, the Churched Gals are among the most kinky around.
*shrugs*
O.
After 24 hours of reflection I still think any woman who would fall for a guy like Meeks is an idiot. And to actually offer to take him home and rehabilitate him (and other foolishness) with their name and photos on Facebook for all to see? Nutty. Totally nuts!
As for Mr. Meeks, hopefully he has sense enough to carpe down and get a modeling contract and give up his hoodlum ways. But more likely he’ll go right back to it.
“when I hear “dominant husband” I think of the super stern angry guy that everyone thinks is gonna snap”
Yeah, mine isn’t like that at all. If you have hand, then you can relax 99% of the time. Mine goes out of his way to be generous and kind to me.
I’m ill with tonsolitis right now and he’s being really sweet. Making me tea, bringing me sushi and noodle soup to eat, putting the kids to bed and doing the dishes, checking my temp, etc. He can do that without me thinking “kitchen bitch” because of the way he is the rest of the time.
He’s usually really sweet, it’s just that the times when he’s stern leave such a deep impression on me.
@Ms. Elspeth:
Since your line of argument is that your hubbie is a natural who doesn’t need Game at all, let me hit you and others with the following:
Naturals are the ones LEAST able to teach anyone else – in this case your hubbie teaching your son(s) – about Game. Theey don’t know what they’re doing or why they’re doing it, nor are they able to breakdown, frame by frame, the intricacies of male-female sociosexual interaction. Naturals fly on autopilot, and are horrible teachers.
You may assume that your sons, if you have them, are also naturals; if they are, great. But what if they weren’t? Would your hubbie be able to teach them what he knows, and why? Or would he direct them to the Bible? How has that method worked for the Black community, as a whole, in our time today?
I’m often emailed by Black male readers asking me what I think of thus and so Brotha seduction writer or blogger. I cannot use the term “Game” because, like your hubbie, they have a visceral reaction to the term, and I have noticed this is a very strong trend amongst Brothas. The very idea of actually learning, in a scholarly, disciplined way, the fundaments and rudiments of male and female socioasexual interaction, is almost seen as sinful – as a mark on their Blackness as Black Men. After all, ALL Black Men are supposed to be born with the skills to be a Mack, right? So if you take to doing what those nerdy White guys do, well, what does that say about you?
As you might have guessed, I don’t have a very high opinion of my fellow Brotha writers on the topic, precisely because they are so knee jerk like your hubbie. Their arrogant ignorance and refusal to even become educated about something before they trash it, is anathema to me. And yes, I write the way that I do because it is important to show the world that Brothas most definitely can read and write, extremely well. Far too many Brothas are lazy and rely on natural talent to pull them through. I like relying on technical know-how and a wide and deep corpus of knowledge to draw on, falling back on talent as a last resort. Black Men have a serious anti-intellectual problem, and it needs to die with the quickness. They also have a serious pride problem, and there is nothing at all wrong in admitting that you could improve in one of the most important areas of your life as a Man. In fact, these things are evident in other areas of Black Male life – health, education, you name it. Nobody can tell Brothas anything, which is how and why they wind up on the bottom of everything in life.
This is how and why I do what I do, to show other Brothas that it can be done, and to demonstrate that what I know isn’t some street corner stuff, but cutting edge, state of the art science, proofed by thousands of guys from all walks of lie replicating the results again and again in realtime.
It’s guys like your hubbie, that is the reason for how and why I write about Game. Because guys like your hubbie, ain’t getting the job done.
Again, nothing personal. I’m just sayin’ tho.
O.
I think that what Meeks establishes is that very attractive people can quite literally get away with murder. The same is probably doubly true for attractive women—eg, Amanda Knox, Casey Anthony, a long and celebrated list of hot female elementary and high school teachers who had sex with teenage students.
There is substantive evidence that people make decisions on a few binary variables that had great legacy survival value—Hot/Not, Strong/Weak, Friendly/Unfriendly—within about 1/2 of a second (possibly less; it seems to be getting faster as people process visual info on the internet all day).
Gender, race, size, and age assessments are also made on autopilot at these “genetic speeds”. The determination is made by the so-called system 1 decision mechanism and then it becomes a “hot cognition”—an emotional imprint that is kicked upstairs to be used as the base of a strategy. You can think of the nervous system as being organized to some extent to make Approach vs. Withdraw decisions and emotions being an amplifier for this process. People with fucked up emotions make terrible decisions when it comes to Approach/Withdraw.
In other words, you have an operating system which includes a model for assessing the threat, ally, and mating value of strangers, and this model can enrich itself in less than a second. It then forms an opinion which it does not like to change.
If you come out from someone’s assessment as “Hot”, you then enjoy Halo effect benefits which will advantage you in the next assessment battery, which takes <10 seconds and includes more detailed things like:
-More specific ethnicity
-SES
-Education level
-Demeanor
-Athleticism/Strength
-Social sophistication
-Sexual Orientation (sometimes)
Generally speaking, the more something comes out of the 1st, superfast bin, the more it clouds judgments and leads to positive and negative stereotyping. At this stage, books are almost completely being almost judged by their covers. I am not saying that this is fair or just, but it just is the way the world works, and social media will amplify these effects. It's also extremely difficult to actually change these judgments; we can work to react to them in more productive ways and set mousetraps on our weaknesses and biases, but the first burst is super fast and we will be reacting to it as if we are "strangers to ourselves" (actually the title of a great book on this stuff).
The ones from the second bin, like SES and education, can be played around with via relatively efficient fixes, and disadvantages can be overcome more easily. Social dynamics-trained people can use frameworks like the Universal Styles system created by Alyce Parsons to try to work with someone on these (that one is really for women and it has a lot of problems, but I still show it in class because I know that media people like it).
…But if you are judged as Not Hot, Weak, and Unfriendly—the Toxic Trio of image consulting and executive presence coaching—in that quick initial pass, you are probably *fucked* regardless of what comes next.
Meeks is judged as Very Hot by many women. He's a very handsome man. The other assessments of him—apparently including his legal status—are then either ignored or even favorably colored by his Hotness. What could be a tremendous weakness in non-Hot Smith may actually be an asset for Hot Meeks (i.e., violent criminality can be characterized as horrendous or as attractive badboy dominance depending on whether or not the railroad car is hitched to a Hot or Not-Hot locomotive). I think this phenomena can leave a lot of men confused about what is working for some swordsmen and why.
I’m not that kinky, I just seem to have an unusually high pain and discomfort threshold.
He babies me when I’m sick because otherwise I’d get right up and go to work with a fever or a serious injury. I’ve passed out a few times in our marriage, including during a pregnancy, because I underestimated how sick I was.
A couple of weeks ago, I got a severe burn at work and kept working for four hours, rode my bike home with oozing skin, and didn’t want to see a doctor. I was like, “Eh… just put a bandage on it.” Hubby made me go, though, and the doctor was like, “Any other woman would have immediately run here in tears.” I was like, “Any other woman is a wuss.” LOL The scar goes from my elbow up to my shoulder; I fell against an industrial oven.
I’ve been walking and driving around with a high-grade fever all day and didn’t even notice, until he came home and saw my red face and glassy eyes. And sent me right to bed.
You can’t scare a woman like me with a bitch-slap or a spanking. I’d just laugh and assume it was foreplay.
Jf12: “re: Example of a man feeling in love.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lvR1YgT7QYs“
Another example:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EU-imAbZ5G8
ADBG, that was a very interesting post about the bicameral brain theory. I hadn’t heard of it. I’m not so sure I buy it (if I understand the premise exactly, I’d have to read up).
The ancients held a far different concept of “mythos” and “logos” but I think they understood the difference. Mythos dealt with the unconscious mind and wasn’t intended to be taken literally, and logos dealt with more practical and direct aspects of living. Both were concepts essential to their way of life…they were complimentary methods for arriving at “the truth” before the Age of Reason.
I’d site as evidence the fact that mystical thinking and mythos did not die off 3000 years ago. And closed societies maintained concepts of mythos beyond the Age of Reason.
E doesn’t have any sons, but I do. My son is his little mini me, but he doesn’t instruct him or anything. He just picks it up or is born with that personality, or something.
I do try to parse what my husband does for wider consumption, and we all know E does, too. But if I ask my husband what advice I should give other guys, he says stuff like “try to be nice” or “bring her flowers sometimes” or “be a servant leader”. This how he sees himself, but it’s not the full picture.
@Ms. Alte:
Right, thank you for confirming, yet again(!) what I’ve beensaying: Naturals are HORRIBLE teachers of Game. Your best hope is that your boy is either a Natrual himself (remember, that may or may not be true, due to Regressionto the Mean), or gets with an Asian Chick.
And relax. Ain’t nothing wrong with a little bump n grind, as R. Kelly once so famously put it. You”re into a bit of Kink. Rejoice!
O.
#287 “Nobody expects a grown-ass man to put if with any crap”
Incorrect. It’s obligatory. See “longsuffering”.
The Crucifixion demonstrates God’s *infatuation* with His bride.
#294 I dunno, the Mel Gibson clip doesn’t speak to me. Him betaizing “I didn’t know if I had the courage” etc, and she *negging* him?
And in other #ChickLogic101 News, anytime you’ve never heard of a crucial concept that comes straight from CharlesDarwwin himself as to Sexual Selection, like Cross Character Assortment, simply say that those who bring it up, “made it up” – while you cling to squishy sociological BSery that’s based on 1500, largely homogenuous people.
You just cannot make. This. Stuff. Up.
You’re for EvoPsych before you were against it.
You’re Game before you against it.
Sociology has a long and tortured history not just in the USA but in other parts of the world for its whacked methods and ideological blindness, but if it says what you want it to ay, you run with it.
And of course, “morality is absolute” except when it’s not.
Ladies and Gentlemen I give you, the Mind of Woman!
#ChickLogic101StrikesAgain
SMH…
O.
Obs:
I can’t speak for Elspeth. That said, pressing her for SAM’s opinions or non-thoughts about Game isn’t likely to lead to much that’s illuminating. She and SAM are outliers in that she is extremely attracted to SAM. From my experience, today, most married women are not extremely attracted, sexually or otherwise, to their husbands. From the way it looks to me, most married women are decidedly NOT attracted to their husbands, and that’s clear from their private and public conduct.
SAM is a natural. He’s never had any trouble attracting and holding the interest of women. He likely grew up around dominant men and submissive women; and around men who understood female nature very well. So he came up inculcated with Game.
SAM and Elspeth likely don’t come from a mainline (majority White) Christian tradition. I do. In that tradition, everything is completely feminized. And I do mean everything – the sermons, the volunteer work, Sunday School, the socialization, even the custodial work. The women do everything except preach the sermon. They ran off the men generations ago. You can forget about hearing anything about wives submitting to husbands – no way no how is that EVER going to be preached in public. Any pastor who dared utter those words would be run out of church on a rail, reported to his superiors, etc. Men are torn down, cut off at the knees, denigrated and ridiculed. In church a “father” is Ray Barone of “Everybody Loves Raymond”. Men like my dad went along with it because, well, that is just what you do to keep the peace at home.
This creates a wide swath of men and boys who are, for lack of a better phrase, milquetoast pussies. It should come as no surprise – everyone around them has assiduously trained them to be exactly what they are. They don’t know even the first thing about how to relate to a woman as a man. Any self-assertion by a man is “abusive” and “nasty” and “sexist” and “threatening”. Any appreciation of a woman’s looks is “oppressive” and “sexist” and “not God-honoring”. Any dissatisfaction about dating, sex, etc. expressed by a man is “selfish” and “of the Devil”. The verse from Ephesians talking about how a woman is supposed to submit to her husband? That verse doesn’t really mean what it says. Wives DO NOT have to submit to their husbands; that’s an archaic, throwback verse for a long-past epoch, ancient history.
So men turn to learning intersexual dynamics because, well, they are in unhappy marriages. Or they’re on their 15th round of dating and for some reason they can’t ever get past date 2. Or they have already been on the receiving end of an “I’m not haaappy” divorce, which she obtained with the full knowledge and backing of the Church (you know, that same church where the God there says “I hate divorce”?).
They don’t get it. They’re doing everything that everyone around them is telling them to do (be nice, supplicate, give her what she wants) and it’s not working. They’re saying “But you told me that girls are sexually attracted to nice, supplication, pedestalization and gift giving. You said those things turn girls on. It’s not working. Why isn’t it working? “
Then you have the female advice bloggers saying one of the following:
1. Well, you’re not being nice enough. You have to be nicer.
2. It’s YOUR fault. Why did you believe them? Why couldn’t you see what was going on around you? Couldn’t you see that girls were telling you they had to shampoo their hair, as they got on the back of Harley McBadboy’s motorcycle? Couldn’t you see that being a dickbag attracted the girls? What’s wrong with you? Why couldn’t you see that and then adjust for it?? Your failure to change is YOUR fault.
3. If you are in a failing marriage, it’s because you are not a good enough Christian. She’s not submitting to you because you’re not leading her (where she wants to go).
That is why Church men are showing up here.
Liz,
I agree, no reason to buy into it. Dawkins described it as either complete rubbish or absolute genius. However, I think it’s interesting because it paints a plausible, extremely different picture of humanity than what we are used to. If true, for basically all mankind’s history, we were not conscious beings.
That is a HUGE implication. The sense of self is not only not biologically intrinsic to humans, it is a recently developed concept (not only evolutionarily, but in the evolution of Homo Sapiens!), and non-conscious (or very low conscious) humans would have developed all the trappings of civilization, including art, writing, chariots, and the pyramids (!!!!!!!)
This would still be within our species, but the cognitive experiences are UNBELIEVABLY different. Cognitively speaking, you would think of them as no different from your cat….except that they can build ships that can cross oceans and field armies vast enough to crush most pre-Medieval militaries!
And we evolved from that in an extremely short period of time to our current civilization capable of understanding quantum mechanics!
That has huge implications for our future. Again, we are crossing another huge logical divide today thanks to universal schooling and Pre-K. If you think humanity has a relatively fixed cognition, no big deal.
If you think humanity has evolved from mindless automatons to our current brain in a course of a few thousand years, we are crossing a Darwininan Event Horizon. Into what, I have no idea, but almost definitely crossing it.
Huge implications for Game, too. The cognitive hamsters we all know and love are a scant 4500 years old, and are currently undergoing an evolution the likes of which humanity has NEVER seen.
There’s also no real reason to not see divergent tracks! We already see some degree of neurological diversity in humans….autistics, dark triads, depressives, etc. There’s no convincing reason we would NOT see even diversity, more hard-wired, with cognitive experiences so unbelievably different as to be neither bridgeable nor understandable.
See Obs’s point about Elspeth’s husband “just getting it” and not needing game. I could say the same Re: depression for other people. Given the vast, vast, vast differences in mating and economic opportunities opening up, these differences could substantially increase.
And by the way, the main reason most women are not sexually attracted to their husbands is because the men they’re married to are not attractive.
They’re not attractive because they never learned about what women find attractive, and then worked to be that.
They’re not attractive because everyone around them specifically taught them to be unattractive.
Another thing that’s going on here is an excessive focus on the “spiritual”, at the expense of the physical and the mental. The modern day Protestant Church completely ignores the role of physical attraction and inter-sexual dynamics, because that’s “sinful” and “carnal” and “fleshy”. You’re supposed to suppress and “overcome” and “rule over” the desires of your physical body. Your wanting a pretty girl is evidence that your bodily desires are “out of control” and you need help to “rein them in” and control the “lusts of your flesh”. You are in sin, and you need to repent and come to Jeeeeeezzzuussssss.
If you look at that pretty girl, you’ve lusted in your heart and committed a sin and you’re going to hell.
If you want to marry a pretty girl, then you’re shallow and superficial.
If you aren’t interested in the fat girl or the weird girl, then you’re not really a Christian because you don’t appreciate her “inner beauty”.
If you aren’t really interested in dating, then you might be gay and in even deeper trouble than anyone thought.
#300 “2. … What’s wrong with you? Why couldn’t you see that and then adjust for it??”
I’ll take this one. I first encountered the meme “You ought to be bad” more than fifty years ago now. It loomed up suddenly in the mists of thought, uncomfortably close to home; I didn’t need to wander in my mind to find it. It was just there, unbidden, clearly wrong. A complete contradiction; it had no business even existing. I left it alone, since it was a stupid thought, ugly, dark, smelly. But like a bad neighbor, it was there.
It is still a contradiction. It is still clearly wrong. But further progress for me apparently lies in that direction. Maybe I can just bulldoze the area instead of inhabiting it.
“Incorrect. It’s obligatory.”
You’re supposed to be willing to suffer for your faith, not in order to ruin your wife and spoil your kids.
#304 Nope. Nope. Nope. Longsuffering towards each other.
Obs, jf12:
Obsidian, please give jf12 my email address.
Okay, I got a few minutes so I popped back in.
Couple of thoughts. The first is that I don’t know if my husband is a natural as much as he was very handsome and had more opportunities to figure things out.
On the issue of black men and anti-intellectualism. Have you heard the saying, “If you want to hide something from a black man, put it in a book”? I don’t doubt it.
My husband doesn’t have that problem on the main, being in the industry of those white nerdy dudes you mentioned (network engineer). And the things that interest him? He has no problem studying those things. It just so happens that Game is not one of those things.
I’m glad Alte showed up to offer some perspective:
Yeah, mine isn’t like that at all. If you have hand, then you can relax 99% of the time. Mine goes out of his way to be generous and kind to me.
Exactly. When he has a firm handle on his home and relationship, there’s no need for perpetual sternness. The problem for most men of course…
My husband is affectionate, knows how to surprise me in the best ways, and we get along well. It’s not (as I said) as if he’s a fire breathing dragon terrorizing me with threats and dread. Nothing could be farther from the truth. But no, he isn’t going to be relegated to the level of the children in his own house, like most men seem to be.
I do try to parse what my husband does for wider consumption, and we all know E does, too.
Yes, I do. And I write what I do the way I do because most wives aren’t dealing with a husband so dominant that he’s a terrorist. Most wives have cowed their husbands into a ridiculous level of docility. And then they wonder why he’s checked out, etc.
My point is that if you 1) submit to him and 2) stop being a defensive, usurping shrew, you might surprised at what he really thinks when he feels safe to say it. And lastly, point out that it’s really hot when your man in really in charge.
I’m very thankful for the few women who comment regularly who are also married to dominant men. They have gone a long way to diffuse the sentiment I used to get: that my husband is just an ass and I’m a glutton for punishment. Alte, Velvet, and Hearth are my back up that yes, dominant men can be kind and you needn’t be afraid of letting him take charge, even (gasp!) refuse to take your crap with a little bit of a strong hand.
And (as Alte likes to point out), the sex is better.
I was a natural then started taking what my ex wife, Christians etc said seriously. And by natural I mean, bad boy, athlete etc. Learning game for me was really about becoming me again. Hell still wouldn’t say I have “game”. I am simply unapologeticlly me, self focused, masculine and 100% certain she is replaceable in hours if not minutes.
Elspeth said hit on something that grinds my gears. It is the man’s house. No man cave etc, the whole damn house.
I allowed my majordomo to girly up her room and bathroom, and I have allowed girl #1 to add some feminine flourishes to my bed room, but otherwise, just say no. Few things scream how the mighty has fallen like “man cave”.
Nope. Nope. Nope. Longsuffering towards each other.
See, I would argue in completely good faith that my husband IS longsuffering towards me.
He just isn’t going to step aside passively for a ruined wife and spoiled kids.
#307 “My point is that if you 1) submit to him and 2) stop being a defensive, usurping shrew, you might surprised at what he really thinks when he feels safe to say it.”
Good point. Besides which, since the mule-whispering doesn’t work, the only actual alternative he has to motivate her is a 2×4.
#309 “I would argue in completely good faith that my husband IS longsuffering towards me.”
Ok, I can see how you *feeling* like that is a good motivator for you, but are we talking about you burning the chicken or merely getting on the table in front of him 15 minutes later than usual?
@Obsidian, #175+
I hate to have you think you typed all that out for nothing, but it’s really much more simple to refute SW.
You see, assortive mating isn’t the same as assortive ‘pairing’. Alpha fucks motivates assortive mating, Beta bucks motivates assortive pairing and until Giggles recognizes the biologically motivated nature of hypergamy and strategic pluralism in women’s sexual methods to optimize it, nothing she cuts and pastes into her blog is worth responding to.
I gotta run again, but jf12, was that last quip an allusion to something I said on my blog?
If so, some context. Facing down a bunch of neighborhood thugs who are itching for a fight is one thing. Sometimes all those understand is a 2×4, LOL.
Handling your wife as a Christian husband is markedly different. It doesn’t in my opinion mean lying down and letting your family be spoiled out of a misguided notion of “love”. Talk about poor stewardship of what has been entrusted to you!
But no 2×4 is required. Besides, the law frowns on that sort of thing.
.
@313
I just how much experience do you have with Christian wives? Because I fail to see the difference. And where I do, it is better behavior from the thugs.
305
You seem rather disinclined to leave your comfort zone, even if your wife might benefit from it. How is this more loving than a husband who disciplines his wife, so that he can help her be more virtuous?
I guess we’ll just have to agree to disagree.
but are we talking about you burning the chicken or merely getting on the table in front of him 15 minutes later than usual?
We’re talking about letting it go when I spend more than I should or being smart at the mouth or any number of things.
I don’t burn chicken, but sometimes dinner is a few minutes late and he takes it in stride. No complaints. There are always fresh backed cookies here to munch on while I put on the finishing touches.
You don’t get it. You think I’m living in hell, that I’m cowering in fear. Nope. This man would die for me. I know that. He is not going to hurt me. I know that, too.
You honestly don’t believe a man can be dominant, have his wife and hand, and not be a monster. I no longer care to try and disabuse you of that notion.
At least not today.
#314 “it is better behavior from the thugs.”
Very much so. Let that sink in, ladies, before responding. Thugs are MUCH more respectful towards me than my Christian wife, and (most) other women (up until I started, well, being badder).
Random non-neighborhood dogs who wander onto our street and start to bark at me in my own yard are quickly disabused that they could get away with that. And those random dogs are MUCH more respectful towards me than my Christian wife.
#316 ” You think I’m living in hell, that I’m cowering in fear.”
No I don’t. I think you consciously chose to submit *anyway*. I keep saying that, over and over, that *I* say he didn’t MAKE you submit. You’re the one who keeps trying to say otherwise.
Meh. He’s not even that hot. Looks ignorant, dumb. Which is why he’s in a bad way to start with.
You can’t make a woman submit, but you can set boundaries that make it easier on her to submit. Out of charity. You don’t have to leave her to her own misery, just so you can tell everyone you don’t care about her struggle and that you’re a longsuffering husband.
#320 “make it easier on her to submit”
contains the phrase “make it easier on her”. When it strikes you, please get back to me. I’m curious on how long it takes.
jf12:
I might be missing something here, but I’m going to try at this.
It sounds like you are saying one of two things.
1. You’re familiar with Game and intersexual dynamics but you are loath to implement it because you believe it’s incompatible with Christianity.
2. You’re familiar with Game and intersexual dynamics, you are implementing your knowledge of them, but it’s not working to improve your marriage and your wife’s respect towards you.
Let me address each.
1. Intersexual dynamics and the knowledge and implementation of them in a marriage or relationship isn’t sinful per se. It also doesn’t mean you have to “go bad” or “go dark triad”. Longsuffering and patience also doesn’t mean you let her have control of the marriage; nor does it mean you subordinate your wants, needs, and desires to hers.
2. If game/dominance isn’t working, and dread isn’t working, then you might have to go ultimatum, which is something like this: “Your lack of respect is killing our marriage. Things have to change now, or the marriage is over.” And then you go about your business.
If that still doesn’t work, then you have two choices: (a) remain in the marriage and live with things the way they are; and (b) end the marriage and work out the best deal you can in the separation agreement or divorce.
Even the best game will not work on a woman who will not choose to submit, will not choose to respect. Game and intersexual dynamics just help illustrate consequences; they won’t cure everything. And, they won’t force a woman into submission or respect.
Its not just women who do this. What about “Free Jodi”? There are tons of guys on that site claiming she’s too beautiful to be a killer and trying to sell her artwork for her. It works both ways. People perceived to be attracted are also perceived to be innocent.
You most certainly can and men did make women submit.
#291 “The very idea of actually learning, in a scholarly, disciplined way, the fundaments and rudiments of male and female socioasexual interaction, is almost seen as sinful – as a mark on their Blackness as Black Men. After all, ALL Black Men are supposed to be born with the skills to be a Mack, right?”
This is like rhythym, or dancing, or whatever, too.
I have no problem with that phrase. I try to make a virtuous life easier for my husband, too. I try to maintain my looks and satisfy him, so that he’s not as tempted by other women, for instance.
You can force a woman to obey you, but Biblical submission involves free will on her part. Even if she does everything you say, she may still be in rebellion in her heart.
@ 327. still wrong at every level, but in reality who gives a damn? as long as she keeps a clean house, keeps the peace in the home and puts out…. mission accomplished
deti makes Christianity sound like a horrible religion. Why not find another one or just quit religion altogether?
#322 Both/and.
I’m more firmly convinced than ever that Game *works* because experience. And I would go a couple steps further than saying Game is merely incompatible with Christianity, and say it is antagonistic.
Some more darkknight gamertags. Dire Warning. Baleful Portent.
@Ms. Sharon:
” Its not just women who do this. What about “Free Jodi”? There are tons of guys on that site claiming she’s too beautiful to be a killer and trying to sell her artwork for her. It works both ways. People perceived to be attracted are also perceived to be innocent.”
O: Even if we accept your premise for the moment to be true, what you’re leaving out is the sheer scale here. Neither Amanda Knox, Casey Anthony or Jodi Arias got the kind of rapid, massive and visceral response Meeks did. THAT is hugely, hugely important: a straight up Tingle-O-Meter of Jumbotron proportions. Sure, Knox, Anthony and Arias may have their stans, but all three combined couldn’t do what Meeks did with just one photo.
I just love it when the ladies say “Men do it too!” – it’s their way of saying “I concede”…
O.
@JF12:
Would you agree or disagree with the followwing proposition:
All living things have mating strategies?
Second question:
Is Christianity antithetical to mating strategies? If so, please explain how and why?
Thanks
O.
#327 I wouldn’t care at all about rebellion in her heart if her body is obeying me. That’s what she gave me in marriage.
For that matter, she tells me she’s submissive in her heart. But her body betrays her lie.
#332 I believe Christianity is cognizant of natural mating strategies and rejects them as antithetical. What is offered to believers is an unnatural, or we would prefer to see it as supernatural, mating strategy: pick a spouse, any spouse, and that’s what you get to play with for the entirety of the rest of your life; one card is your whole hand, and you just play the same card, over and over again until you die. It can be fun, if there’s no other game in town.
one thing you can count on with chicks is they are consistently sophistic and self centered. that statement was one of those stealth statements going to the heart of how women simply don’t give a shit about men.
Or maybe she is trying to be submissive and you aren’t helping her out. It took my husband years to teach me how to be submissive. It’s not something that comes easily to me and my mom wasn’t a great role model. I didn’t even know where to start.
Glad I have a husband who doesn’t get off on watching me fail.
“Free Jodi” is girls, btw.
http://jodiariasisinnocent.com/about-us-jodi-arias-support-site-jodi-arias-innocent/
#336 exampling submission makes it easiest of all.
In fact, submission is as easy as doing nothing: quit resisting. What is *impossible* for a husband is teaching a woman to *want* to submit.
@Ms. Elspeth:
LOL. You’re still NOT addressing a thing I actually asked you, and I knoww why, because it’s difficult to answer in suuch a straight up manner. But the facts don’t change because you’re not able to face up to them, I’m afraid.
The fact of the matter is that your hubbie is a Natural, most likely as a result of DNA and very early sexual experiences/informal Game instruction from his Old Man. This is a very common occurrencce in Black America, particularly the more lower and working classes. Remember, Papa O as a Natural, too – he stepped to Mama O on a lark while driving on Broad St., hopped out spit Game on a Moving Target and got married a month later.
It’s a feat his bouncing baby boy has yet to pull off.
And, like your hubbie, I too “learned” from my dad – just observing him and his ways around the ladies, who, since I worked with him a lot in their homes, always did “extra” things for him – cooked for him, got him drinks, and alays just so happened to be wearing ah, loungewear. If Preselection works at all, the Sistahood is a shouting witness.
So, I get all that you’re saying and for the record, I think hat you twwo have together is a wonderful thing. But we both know that you’re a serious outlier, even within, perhaps especially within, the Black Church community. You two are RARE. And all for the reasons Deti noted upthread, on Steroids. Because we both know that the Black Church is on some other level ish that Deti is talking about, in fact he has no idea. If he thinks what’s going on in the White mainline churches is a big deal, he should pay soome visits to the Black ones. They will make his head spin. If ever there was glaring proof of the Red Pill, Game, and EvoPsych, every Sunday at 11am in Black America is it, in spades.
So, for all of that, I am truly happy for you and your hubby. That’s what’s up.
But I didn’t ask you about all that, nor did I ask you whether your hubby “needed” Game or not. I asked you what he actually KNEW, from study, about Game. And you admitted, “nothing” – BY HIS OWN CHOICE.
Therefore, his opinion is NOT to be taken seriously. As it should be, the opinions of foolish and unreasonable people.
Yes?
There are more reasons to study something than mere self-interest, Ms. Elspeth. Again, you’re dodging my question, and in so doing are actually answwering it. Since you can’t bring yourself to do so, your evasions and attempts to change the subject will stand in their stead.
Let’s try this again: does the Bible confiirm or deny, that all living things on this planet have mating strategies, or not? That would be a simple yes/no question.
Let’s also try this one mo gin: there is a deeply profound reason why (White) Church Guys are coming to the Manosphere, not the other way around and it’s all due to the excellently laidout reasons Deti presented upthread. And you and I both know that what he described is on display in Extremis in Black America on Sunday morning at 11am. We know what the situation is. And the very fact that so many (White) Church Guys are showing up in and around the sphere, is as much smoking gun evidence as anyone would ever need, that what the Church, Black, White or otherwise, is selling these days, just ain’t working.
Now – why would that be, hmm?
O.
Sharon 329:
That’s not Christianity. It’s Churchianity, which is markedly different. Churchianity is basically feminized “christianity, masquerades as Christianity, and is a terrible perversion of true Christianity.
@JF12:
I’ not sure, so please help me out here, in light of your response to my question at 332:
Is Christianity compatible with Reason, Logic, Evidence and Comparison – basically, Socratic Method and Scientific Method? My faith tradtion attempts to reconcile these concepts with the faith itself, but I’m no so sure Christianity does. I ask because, it seems to me part of your problem is reconciling what you see in your own life in real time, versus what your faith seems to be telling you. I suppose if you cannot find a way to reconcile them, doctrinally or otherwise, that then leaves the question as to wwhich you will ultimately choose.
Your thoughts?
O.
Obs,
I am perusing through the post over yonder that, ahhh, “offends,” lol.
Let’s sum up with this gem:
New Game technique: just study with her. It’s that simple. She’s bound to like you.
Hehehehehehehehe.
And this:
Which, obviously, contradicts the title of the post, which is that women don’t everrrrrrrr do this.
Except of course for dreaded, no-good, bad “short-term mating” (unless a woman wants short-term mating, then you’re a weak insecure man for holding that against her).
This whole assorative mating shtick is missing a few HUGEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE blind-spots, and they are all there. We can all agree that people do mate assoratively to SOME EXTENT, but the very fact that it is “increasing” means that there are alternative mating strategies in the human sexual selection play-book, and that these have been used extensively.
Therefore implying assorative mating is the end-all, be-all, is quite dishonest. You’ll see, if you peruse through the comments, hints at other mating strategies:
-J suggesting that “sluts” have a good strategy because they have “back-ups”
-Dark Art Mod suggesting attractive couples have more daughters (this is less a mating strategy and mroe subconscious reproductive strategy)
-Susan suggesting that both men and women prefer more masculinized faces iin dangerous times.
All these are pretty fatal shots to the enshrinement of assorative mating as a biological bench-mark. Really, assorative mating is, at best, an evolving social norm, predicated on a bunch of other social norms. This is why Susan ends her post with:
Indefinitely is of course the correct term, as women are going to remain in the labor force indefinitely. As in, we don’t know when they won’t. However, as we have pointed out in THIS thread, this trend is really an aberration as far as the American industrial economy is concerned: married women have NOT worked as of the early 20th century. I do not have a source for this, Obs, but listening to an econ lecture, black women post slavery continued working, but dropped their working hours by 40% (!!!!) using their free time for child-care.
In fact, mothers are typically noted as the only actual supply-siders: if their wages increase, they actually do work more because working is more attractive than home child-care. Men have a so-called “backwards bending” supply curve, IE, they become so wealthy, they don’t have to work as much.
However, again, assorative mating is NOT BIOLOGICAL CERTAINTY. It is, at best, a punctuated equilibrium contigent on a great many other social conditions, any of which CAN change, some of which WILL change.
Which means the reign of assorative mating will most likely be quite short indeed.
As for economic changes, they comment about it a lot in their thread. College isn’t what it used to be, and they rely on the typical arguments: college is watered-down, but you need to go to college to even have a chance, etc.
Alternatively: the economy is FUBAR’d. Post-2000, the US economy never really recovered, and IT productivity growth COLLAPSED. The 2008 recession merely sealed the deal and we are now forced to adjust to our new, post-industrial revolution economy, of low productivity growth.
To give scale to this, this will be the first recession in the history of the US, that the economy will never return to trend-line growth. Ever.
By that metric, the Great Depression is a joke compared to what we just went through.
And they’re high-fiving women “finally arriving.”
“Make me want to” is the opposite of submitting, btw.
@340
Really Deti I no longer see a difference. Folks like to throw curhcianity out like its some how different but…. not so much.
#341 “I ask because, it seems to me part of your problem is reconciling what you see in your own life in real time, versus what your faith seems to be telling you.”
Yes. I don’t think it’s esoteric that Christianity *claims* to be incompatible with the world-as-it-is.
I guess I’m just that disappointed that my wife is so … less than all that.
As it should be, the opinions of foolish and unreasonable people.
Are you like…trying to piss me off? I’m gonna let that one go and answer the main question.
does the Bible confiirm or deny, that all living things on this planet have mating strategies, or not?
Yes, the Bible acknowledges the tendencies of men and women and often shows us how people mate (Mating strategies if you will), both for good and for bad.
While I disagree with jf12 on a awful lot of things concerning marriage, I agree with him that the Bible asks of us that we restrain our base instinctive natures in favor of something higher.
The story of how I met and married my husband is well known, so I’ll end this by pointing out that I am not exactly the best person to speak to how it is a man or woman go about doing that (rising above the instinctive nature to choose the higher plane in mate selection). Except watch, pray, and obey.
Jf12:
While I’m not interested in revisiting the whole “whither Game” discussion, it’s not true that Game is antagonistic to Christianity.
Yes, it is true that there are men who know and use game who lead lives incompatible with Chrisitianity. They’re promiscuous, they have extramarital sex, they fornicate. That’s how they choose to use their knowledge.
There are men who know and use game who lead lives compatible with Christianity. They weed out incompatible women. They search for a wife. If married, they improve and enhance their married lives using their knowledge of intersexual dynamics and, yes, Game.
As Slowhand said, It’s in the way that you use it.
#342 re: “The study didn’t say trophy marriages don’t exist, just that they are rare.”
In teen couples and college couples, exclusively, they exist but are rare.
I don’t begrudge women their choices
Well, I do. But more importantly, society should. Society makes demands upon people (e.g. taxes, draft) for its own good. It should make demands upon women collectively for society’s benefit also. It starts with not creating thug-spawn. And there is plenty more after that.
As a final thought, yes, SES and attractiveness appear to be highly correlated in my eyes. The most attractive women I see, I see in rather upper-class, traditional, settings. For example, my Pre-Cana in the Chicago Arch-Diocese (Catholic marriage preparation) was entirely white, full of well-dressed, attractive young women, well-behaved, almost uniformly with Beta and Greater Beta men.
There were no Alphas or Sigmas in the entire house. one frat-boy jerk.
Contrast with what I see on the Chicago CTA, among the lower classes. far uglier, less well-dressed, less well-mannered, overweight women, dating either thugs or herbs.
The social space I inhabit has basically nothing in common with Obs’. (Game still works, though!)
I also spend a good deal of time in Wicker Park/Bucktown. Not as many “hipsters” as advertised. However, the demure, submissive, attractive, doting, feminine girls are there, not in big numbers but there, and they are almost always dating extremely sweet, non-threatening looking young Beta boys.
However, as I said, Game still works (IME)
I would like to know where in the fuck it came from that Christianity on the one hand, and sexual conduct and sexual desire, on the other hand, are somehow incompatible with each other; that they just don’t go together? (Rhetorical question.)
Christianity is superimposed over the top of sexual desire and sexual conduct.
Being Christian is supposed to give people a safe harbor for sex. It’s not supposed to stifle or dampen or eliminate sex. Part of Christianity is supposed to say “here. Here is the place where you have sex. Here are the boundaries. Inside those boundaries, fucking HAVE AT IT!!
Look at Solomon and the Shulamite woman in the Song of Solomon – they were married. They were so hot for each other they could barely stand it. And in the Song, God looks at them, and their union, and says “do it all night long, kids, and have a GREAT time!!”
#347 A quick dash around the loop. Nuclear deterrence *only* works because somebody done got blowed up oncet or twicet. The effect is in the way that you *use* the knowledge, not just the knowing thereof.
Being Christian is supposed to give people a safe harbor for sex. It’s not supposed to stifle or dampen or eliminate sex. Part of Christianity is supposed to say “here. Here is the place where you have sex. Here are the boundaries. Inside those boundaries, fucking HAVE AT IT!!
Look at Solomon and the Shulamite woman in the Song of Solomon – they were married. They were so hot for each other they could barely stand it. And in the Song, God looks at them, and their union, and says “do it all night long, kids, and have a GREAT time!!”
Yeah Deti, this is true. Did anyone here argue otherwise? Keep in mind that I was responding to Obsidian about mating strategies.
I am interested jf12, in your thoughts on Alte’s point about your refusal to exercise eve a limited amount of discipline with your wife if it will help her be more virtuous. I thought she made a good point, and offered a good example at how we as wives can do this from our side.
“Stop resisting” is actually a great start, but it seems to me as if you don’t want her submission to cost you anything. No one (no matter how holy) is going to walk anything out perfectly this side of heaven without lapses and they certainly won’t succeed without at least SOME accountability.
You don’t seem to want to allow for the realities of married life, and those realities can be hard, even when you’re in love.
Women definitely make the same insta-Hotness assessments that men do; they may be less vocal about it under some/many circumstances, but anonymous posting and social media and sex-positivism allows for these interesting crowds to form and for their voices to be heard.
The Meeks effect also reflects the herdlike quality of the pre-selection bonus—music execs have known this for years, so they will have at least one planted girl start screaming at a boy band concert or whatever and know that this will reliably tend to trigger a cascade of screams from surrounding girls. No similar effect has been found for young boys.
This could mean that both genders make the same Hot/Not instant distinction, but the female one can be more affected by other variables. Male tastes may just be more homogenous and cross-culturally convergent, though.
It’s not that women are foolish; it’s that some of the things they care about are not immediately obvious, so being able to piggyback on the due-diligence (or alleged due diligence) of other women is useful. This is obviously something that a lot of guys try to exploit if they can. I think it is unwise to forget that, in some busy mating markets, hot chicks are hit on CONSTANTLY and as a result are very hard to fool.
One of things which is being found across many human performance domains is that “average is over” may be more than a pop-econ slogan. Results may be becoming increasingly binary with some people doing very well and a lot of people really struggling. Even a 5-10% improvement in a core asset like Hotness would lead to tremendously different outcomes between two otherwise very similar men when you consider various magnifying effects which are in play today.
Once again: if you are holistically judged as Hot, having a pitbull, Glock, and tats will also be judged as Hot. But grab another guy who has been judged Not-Hot and he may boast those same accessories yet be criticized for them. It is what makes it tricky and what prevents closed-form, by-rote solutions from normally being a great idea.
It was probably always thus, but the bar for Hotness is now being calibrated by some very tough standards and that may result in fewer local men qualifying as Hot due to adverse comparison problems. I think there is some stuff coming out next year that will begin to show how much adverse comparison issues—principally involving porn—are also affecting male visions of female sexual attractiveness (via the so-called “porn floor”).
Re: MMA. You can think of it as two blades of scissors connected by a hinge. One blade is Striking, the other is Submissions. The hinge is Wrestling; wrestling allows you to decide if you want to keep the fight standing or take it to the ground. The striking blade that has emerged is dominated by Western boxing and Muay Thai. The best boxing style for MMA is probably a D’Amato/Tyson peak-a-boo structure and the best MT style is probably the Dutch/Mejiro Gym type stuff, but these are just my opinions and this is hotly debated. The Submissions blade is dominated by BJJ and you want a BJJ approach that seriously considers the effects of being punched while on the ground (some sports-Jits schools do not worry about this). You see a few other styles here and there—Kyokushin, judo, sambo.
Here’s a guy who puts it all together very nicely:
@Ms. Elspeth:
LOL. Am I trying to piss you off? Not at all. Just telling you that listening to the opinions of the uneducated is a Fool’s Errand. Again, it’s nothing personal. And it’s why I do not discuss things which I have not studied in any great detail. Because I don’t like looking a fool.
O.
@Bastiat:
As alwways, poetry in motion are thy observations! I truly feel blessed to be surrounded by so many sharp people here, such as yourself.
O.
Elspeth:
That wasn’t a response to anything you said. It was more edification for jf12 who is struggling with compatibility between expressions of masculinity, and Christianity.
There are those who believe masculinity as expressed in “game” is nothing but notch counts, fuzzy hats, preening for people, and dancing like a monkey for a woman’s attention. They also believe that masculinity forces men to become evil. Yes, but only if they CHOOSE evil.
No one is forced into evil. All who become evil choose it, of their own free will.
@Bastiat:
Not an MMA guy per se, but I definitely agree wwith your analysis; Tyson style boxing would work best in such a scenario, since you’re doing very close-quarters fighting, which will assuredly wind up being about grappling/wrestling, things I personaally dislike but understand the need for; I just do them very sparingly and as a last resort whenever possible. Most of the time I use stick-and-move/bob-and-weave moves, quick punches, and of course my cane, to soften em up.
O.
#354 FWIW I don’t consider not answering my phone for a few hours as any kind of discipline. That the same as me not bringing home quite as many flowers as I might have.
@Deti 358:
Excellent point. Brava!
Also, will pass along your email to JF12 this evening.
O.
O.
WRT #285. I presumed we’d reached a total of 50,000 dumbasses actually clicking the “like” button on whatever screwy web thingy has Meeks’ picture. If we haven’t, we probably will. I multiplied that by an arbitrary figure, 100 because it’s easy, and came up with 5 million. The other 4,950,000 are the presumed dumbasses who got the tingles without doing the liking thing with their computer.
Five million is approximately 3% of the women in the country, being presumed at 150 million. Now, if you want to multiply by, say, 300 for the dumbasses who got the tingles but left their computer alone, you’ll be approaching 10%. Leaving 90%.
As to ;what people actually see when they look at this guy, from the neck up he could be cast for some action flick if The Rock was busy. Not bad looking if The Rock is your thing.
Tingles is another issue.
And any survey is going to have to be explicit about the response in the methodology or it’s useless.
I get the stat thing about trying to understand a woman. Another analogy alert:
Casinos’ house odds are supposed to be 3%. Suppose it’s the case. It means that, of every dollar of gambling revenue coming in, there will be 97cents paid out in winnings to the gamblers.
Very nice. So, what is the guaranteed house take on the next spin of the roulette wheel?
As the sample size decreases, the confidence in the statistical conclusion decreases until you may as well figure Maybe/maybenot when you’re dealing with one case.
A nonlengthy example of the ineffectiveness of soft dread. Due to her financial infidelity I burned all of the bridges my wife had to my accounts last year, and she gets an allowance, a dole. The fact that she has to ask me for any money hasn’t yielded any extra submission.
I actually am trying to think Hard Dread is a lot more compatible with Christianity than *any* of the supposedly more positive aspects.
Liz,
Those two had a history. Have to include this.
#364 cut off “the supposedly more positive aspects of Game such as increased sexualization of intersexual relationships.”
To all you churchian type lurkers:
Did you realize that the apex alpha man in the Song of Solomon uses Dread? He’s always breaking rapport with the woman and going where there are other women. As evidence, other women sing his praises. The woman chases the man and then he chases her.
We can tell from the context in SoS that the man and the woman cannot be married and there are lots and lots of sexual allusions throughout the book. What???
@ jf12:
Submission for a woman can be difficult. It can be mentally and emotionally painful.
Tough shit.
Perhaps she needs to experience that mental and emotional pain of learning to submit to her husband in a Christian marriage. That’s her battle, not yours. That’s her problem, not yours.
Perhaps she needs to decide whether she would prefer the mental and emotional pain of submission in a Christian marriage.
Or perhaps she would like the mental and emotional pain of being a newly single woman in her middle age, with a set of new “prospects” dwindling by the day.
Perhaps she would like the emotional pain of sexual invisibility, of degrading herself to get male attention by any means necessary.
Or the grinding emotional pain of involuntary celibacy.
Or the searing emotional pain of rejection from a man she deems “unworthy”.
Or maybe she wants the emotional pain of being the “post divorce spinster” and the pity and disdainful looks from her friends. You want emotional pain, honey? Try THAT one on for size.
Perhaps you could lay it out that way. And then perhaps demonstrate it for a day or two, for good measure.
@ deti
Look at Solomon and the Shulamite woman in the Song of Solomon – they were married.
If they were married, then why would it have been a scandal for her to kiss him publicly and to have taken him to her mother’s house–to the bedroom?
Check out SoS 8:1-2.
#368 “Submission for a woman can be difficult.”
I hear that, but it’s like saying it’s difficult to breathe. It doesn’t register with me; it’s inapplicable at best, and seriously if she can’t submit to me then she may as well cease pretending she could be submitting to God because I’m easier.
“Perhaps you could lay it out that way.”
This is what I’m calling Hard Dread, and I’ve been trying to psyche myself up for it, like a shot-putter warming up and going through the motions.
@ Badpainter
I was questioning one of O’s supporting arguments, not disputing his main point.
The concept of “Trophy Wives” is a dead feminine social convention from the mid 80s to the mid 90s.
When it’s statistically 70% women initiating divorce, detonating marriages because an Eat Pray Love script and a “I coulda done better than this Beta” commercialization effort of women’s innate hypergamy, it’s kind of hard to float the male-shame “men divorce their wives because they want a newer model” trope.
Oh I still get it occasionally in my comment sections but now it’s just the “ooh ooh men do it too” script that falls flat, and I think even the hard-sells are realizing this with such readily available divorce stats online now.
The Trophy Wife convention worked in stupid 80’s movies plots as a vehicle to infantilize men’s commitment to women’s long-term security, but when Stella heads off to Jamaica to ‘get her groove on’ it’s called empowerment.
Trophy Wife may not be a functional convention anymore, but it’s certainly a good illustration of the Feminine Imperative at work.
@ ADBG
New Game technique: just study with her. It’s that simple. She’s bound to like you.
Only takes 10 minutes or so. Evidence: my college gf. After 10 minutes of studying with me she wanted to make out. Oh wait, we could have been doing laundry and had the same result. Nevermind, lol.
Yeah, claiming that studying and working together necessarily leads to relationships is absurd. Still, Social Circle Game is real, so it’s possible, just not necessarily so.
Bastiat: “The Meeks effect also reflects the herdlike quality of the pre-selection bonus—music execs have known this for years, so they will have at least one planted girl start screaming at a boy band concert or whatever and know that this will reliably tend to trigger a cascade of screams from surrounding girls. No similar effect has been found for young boys.”
I hadn’t heard of this before. Damn, that’s fascinating (and not really surprising, unfortunately). Makes one wonder about social media manipulation. I’m sure to a certain degree, we’re all being ‘played’.
“It’s not that women are foolish”
Well…of course we are. And men are too. Just yesterday, I mentioned this thread about Meeks to my husband. His response, “For fucks sake. Women are retarded.” And they are. I agreed. But then he added that he loves them anyway…which of course I know (and I’m rather glad as the beneficiary).
Yet men put up with their annoying bullshit if they are good to look at. Men (NAMALT) will drop every brain bite to brandish a sword for the maiden fair…even when she’s a complete idiot, and completely wrong…if she looks good enough.Each sex is foolish in its own way.
Scott Adams (Dilbert writer) mentioned that he recently went on asthma medication that virtually eliminated his libido and he felt like his IQ had doubled. He quipped, ”The founders of our country understood this problem. That’s why a man can’t be president until he reaches an age where the risk of civil war is more compelling than his next orgasm. Personally, I hadn’t yet reached that point. But after a few hits of my asthma meds I was ready to negotiate some trade policy.”
I don’t think the naughty secretary look would buy votes for a male political candidate (though of course looks are important for men as well) but it did reasonably well for Palin (and if she’d been mute and simply smiled, or had only 15 to 20 more IQ points, McCain might be president now). I’m actually hoping very much that Hillary’s hideousness might spare us her presidency. But the female vote (go! Disgusting strong, independent uber-crack! We salute you! ::brandishing clown-puppets::) will probably make up for it, unfortunately.
@Ms. Liz:
I’m not so sure Hillary wwill be elected POTUS. As you noted, she’s got age working against her; if elected, she’ll rival Ronald Reagan as the oldest POTUS to be elected. And unlike the Gipper, who survived an assassination attempt(!), Hillary hasn’t proven anywhere near as physically tough. So there’s that.
And of course, the really big fly in her ointment: Benghazi. Just no getting around that and I am sure the GOP are doing the Birdman handrub in anticipation. That’s going to be hugely important as the USA is very likely to be more and more involved in dealing with Al-Qaeda and more local Islamist outfits, like Boko Haram, in Africa in the coming years. Having a POTUS who as SOS bungle something as crucial as Libya, resulting in among others the death of a top level diplomat, ain’t a good look…in fact, I fully expect the GOP strategists to dig up her 08 campaign ad about who you want answering the horn at 3am.
Of course, old line White Feminists will be pulling for her, buut the country is way too war weary and broke and mad, to go there again. The only real problem here is whether the GOP can hit a grapefruit that’s being lobbed to them or not…
O.
WRT Benghazi. It was either crucial or it was simple.
If crucial–and that means more than we know now–the whole Obama/Clinton foreign policy toward Islamists will be exposed. Not good for Hillary. If it was not crucial, it was still simple–close the thing down or accede to requests for additional security. And if it was simple, she bungled simple.
And she played along with the video lie.
WRT Palin: If her IQ was higher????? WTF? Her opposite number was Slow Joe Biden!!!!! Getting slammed by corrupt media isn’t the same as being dumb.
BB:
“One of things which is being found across many human performance domains is that “average is over” may be more than a pop-econ slogan. Results may be becoming increasingly binary with some people doing very well and a lot of people really struggling. Even a 5-10% improvement in a core asset like Hotness would lead to tremendously different outcomes between two otherwise very similar men when you consider various magnifying effects which are in play today.”
In trying to understand the problem, restating, it’s a question of winner-take-all or winner-take-most-of-it. Winner-take-all: binary model. Winner-take-most-of-it: “and all the children are above average.”
So BB is suggesting winner-take-most-of-it, and the reality of nonlinear rewards for modest self-improvement. In quantitative finance this would indicate incredible convexity in personal attractiveness gains, meaning, if the y axis is *realized attractiveness*, and the x axis is *exertions for self-improvement*, the attractiveness curve would go nearly vertical following very little travel to the right.
This isn’t an argument against probabilistic averaging. It just means that we probably don’t understand what the superfueled hawtness attributes are, or if we do, we are not weighting them properly. In any event, hawtness, here, is not binary. It follows a progression, just a very steep one.
I tend to view too much of life as binary (meaning: you have it or you don’t). This is clearly a bad move, analytically: the world prefers to dribble out its rewards and punishments, rather than presenting them as ones and zeros.
However, in the SMP, and the MMP, perhaps it’s wise to do so (view life as binary). After all, one is either married, or one is not. One is either in demand, or one is back in the gym or the garage, reconfiguring for the next push.
We’ll have to disagree on Palin, Mr Aubrey. I thought she was incredibly dull. Embarassingly dull in debate. I also know a few pilots who saw her snatch on the airliner. They had no vested interest, being Republican, but noted that she sported very short skirts and no underwear and sat incredibly immodestly. Nice.
I hope you’re right, Obs. We’ll see. I have less faith in humanity, and am not so sure more people are concerned with security than what Hillary’s hat/hair style/ or power-suit might be. If she goes on Jenny Craig and has an empowering story about overcoming (whatever), it might be enough to win.
In politics we seem to now have two rival groups of managerialists with little substantial to say about how they would do the big stuff differently (both groups are basically dependent on the same set of vested interests for their funding). So they usually attempt to distract the public from this by bickering over the marginal details.
The media which is supposed to give us variety of opinion and act as a check and balance. But what invariably happens when people are presented with more choice than they can make rational comparisons about is that their decision making process becomes based on their subconscious preferences and prejudices. The preferences are open to exploitation by advertising. So stations that push their existing buttons, tell them what they want to hear, and show them what they want to see because they are commercially-focused either via direct incentive of threats and cajoling. It’s incredibly depressing.
Forgot to add earlier, I loved that clip, Fuzzie! Thanks for that.
@ADBG:
Excellent analysis of you know who – them gals make my head hurt. And I rarely ever get headaches.
*Facepalm*
As for you and I, yup-yup – we’re living proof that Game is Universal. Sure, there may be some minor changes at the margins, but the corpus of Game doesn’t change, nor does the Game itself. Sistas may sh*t test harder and what not, but alll females do that, so what? And Brothas have adapted to it, what I refer to in Star Wars parlance, as Shein/Djem-So Game. IIt’s something I’ve briefly discussed over at my personal blog but never had the chance to really dig deep on. That changes this Summer, as I round out my “Seven Forms of Seduction Styles” series – the aforementioned, and Juyo/Vaapad Game. It’s taken me awhile to really isolate all the factors and salient points of each style, as well as lots of observation in real time of such types of guys out in the field but I think I’ve finally got it down. So when I finally get around to getting that back up and running, I’ll most likely post it over there.
At any rate, Chiraq, as its called by some of the locals, is among if not thee most starkly racially big city in America at this point. What you describe doesn’t surprise me one bit.
O.
@BV 377:
Good breakdown of Bastiat’s analysis. Bravo!
O.
This country has zero idea what happened in Benghazi. So naive scandal fatigue will eliminate that fiasco from being a factor in the 2016 election.
@jf12, #159
I saw this in my feed this morning and just shook my head. I had a lot of respect for Athol, but I’m afraid he jumped the shark by quitting his day job.
#377 fuzzy sets (yes, those pesky things) and fuzzy logic are well suited to capture non-binary logic.
#374 you seriously hadn’t heard of plants before? As mentioned, entertainment-wise, personality-wise, even just applauding much less throwing panties, it works on women almost exclusively and not men. But money-wise, e.g. bidding, buying, etc. it works well on men too.
@381
What did happen in Bengazi?
I understand it as incompetent foreign policy results in dead people and an opportunity in the aftermath to make speeches at the UN suggesting that maybe the 1st Amendment needs some legal restraint as it regards citizens’ political speech.
My biases should be clear, but I am interested to hear your take on it. Of course at this point it doesn’t make any difference, but I remain curious nonetheless.
#384: “you seriously hadn’t heard of plants before?”
Seriously, no. (naive, I know)
I haven’t been to a lot of concerts though. And I can’t imagine screaming because other women were screaming. That’s actually pretty damned funny.
Jf12 at 364,
The “financial infidelity” you mentioned is very worrisome. The silver lining is that you laid down the law to keep the household solvent.
Good job!
On the humorous side, I imagined a “Biblical Submission Boot Camp”. Elspeth and Alte can teach. Sumo can provide whips. Sfcton can lead Physical Training.
Sound like fun?
Oops. Forgot to mention that the students would be troublesome wives, not aggreived husbands.
Elspeth and Alte can teach. Sumo can provide whips. Sfcton can lead Physical Training.
A bear might have a role to play I would think
Good grief.
“Biblical Submission Boot Camp” sounds kind of hot.
Is that wrong?
“Submission for a woman can be difficult.”
As can controlling the sex drive for a fella.
You control yours, and I’ll control mine.
And we will call it even
Instead of Elspeth leading the boot camp, how about that black lady cop from Police Academy?
Fuzzie?
This guy is not quite as hawt, but he is on facebook,
http://minnesota.cbslocal.com/2014/06/23/thief-forgets-to-log-out-of-facebook-after-burglarizing-home/
Farmboy “This guy is not quite as hawt, but he is on facebook
He wins +1 Womenz Internetz!
Oddly, I just finished a whip.
Farm Boy,
I failed finding the clip. While I have seen them all, it has been a long time.
I did stumble across this. This includes the “greengrocer” scene.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pE-lLZDDdXE
I had forgotten how talented Michael Winslow is.
@Rollo 382:
Wrt Athol Kay, I never followed him that closely simply because I’d been so busy with my own things, but what’s going on with him? Last time I heard his book as a runaway success and he quite his day gig. What’s been going on eversince – it’s gotta be a few years by now right?
O
http://www.thepsychfiles.com/2009/06/episode-98-evolutionary-psychology-an-interview-with-dr-david-buss/
As we aall know here at J4G, Streets is Watchin’ to quote Jigga himself; and since we have admirers hither and yon, and since they kinda got the concept of Cross Character Assortment all twisted, here’s Prof. David Buss being interviewed by popular podcast host Michael Britt’s show The Psych Files (above). Here the Man discuss the concept in his own words.
By the way, our admirers might want to checkout Buss’ other interviews with Britt, too, especially the one where he answers all the haters and critics of EvoPsych; what he has to say about the “culturalists” and sociologists is quite illuminating.
Enjoy!
O.
Fuzzie Bear,
Here are a couple of scenes with Hooks from Police Academy,
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7G9vUE1OMDo&sns=em
Enjoying tho discussion but don’t really have anything to add. Except again, women who like Meeks don’t be stupid!
Jf12 I wish I knew what would help… I am hesitant to give advice but from my very limited view it sounds like she sets the frame. And of course I don’t know either of you so just something to ponder.
Bloom,
You’ve been missed. You could have said “He’s a stinker!”
I’d bet that you would have posted a “like” on this criminal.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j9HvlKAO7-8
No doubt, all the girl bears are after him.
Fuzzie Bear,
I bet that the chicks would dig that panda bear from the cheese commercial. So tough, so aloof, so bearlike.
Here is the Panda Cheese commercial video that Farm Boy is referencing. Is this what is called “a$$h01e game”?
Just telling you that listening to the opinions of the uneducated is a Fool’s Errand. Again, it’s nothing personal. And it’s why I do not discuss things which I have not studied in any great detail. Because I don’t like looking a fool.
Who discussed anything in great detail? Not I, and clearly not my husband who you insulted with no full knowledge of his thoughts or insight outside of the bit that I said, which wasn’t much at all really.
I wouldn’t have cared if you’d pointed both barrels at me, since I placed myself in the line of fire.
@Obs #209
I have a fair bit of literature on the subject; you’ve got my email, hit me up if you want it.
That panda cheese bear is just too funny! I wonder where they are from? East Asia? Middle East?
@fuzzie I would say he’s a stinker but every time I try saying that to a friend dating a bad choice it only seems to fuel the attraction. So I’ll just leave it at oy a woman wanting misery and pain would take that on. And she’d have mon to blame but herself.
It is sad that today we confuse him with real masculinity, which includes higher concepts like character, ethics, and honor along with physical appearance and sex appeal.
I want to write a blog on the bad boy phenom aimed at gals but have been too busy, soon!
Bloom,
When you do, I’ll link the bad panda video as an example.
So your friends will go for the stinkers even as they’ve been revealed? I guess that it has always been so. It’s a shame. Another thing to kill incentive for good boys.
It’s sadly true fuzzie, I have learned the hard way trying to warn a gal pal that a guy is no good only seems to cement it. So now I do reverse psychology, “oh yeah, he’s all kids of trouble, that will be exciting, just like Jerry springer! Go get ‘em and enjoy whole it lasts!” That approach works better I have found
Bloom,
With all these friends seeking advice, does your coffee maker ever get a rest?
@fuzzie lol. Not really! Not that they always listen but I love them all just the same and hope for the best!
Not answering the phone is a variant of the Silent Treatment. Drives women nuts.
“As a final thought, yes, SES and attractiveness appear to be highly correlated in my eyes.”
Of course. It’s always like that in feudal societies.
@Ms. Elspeth 405:
Actually, this isn’t the fisrt time you’ve offered your hubbie’s opinion of Game; you’ve said it several times over the past few years that I’m aware of. I’m just catching up for lost time. I maintain what I said based on the facts. Again, nothing personal. I fully expect to be treated the same way if I said something just as insulting about the Bible.
O.
I don’t really think Game manuals and the Bible are equivalent, O.
I laughed at that. Out loud.
Good morning ladies,
@Ms. Alte: No one said that Game manuals and the Bible are the same – except you. Of course you knew my point but you cannot bring yourself to admit it, so once again, Brothas Gonna Work It Out(TM), LOL:
I like to know what it is that I am talking about; and even more to the point, if I find myself having a visceral reaction to something, it’s most likely because said something has struck a very raww nerve within me.
Me. Elspeth has made it a point to mention, every chance she can, in any venue she can, regardless as to the topic or context, solicited or otherwise, that her hubbie is the Sugar Honey Iced Tea. Not only that, but that he thinks Game is Lame. OK, fair enough – it is a free country after all (unlike Germany, where you really can’t speak your mind, right?
).
But here’s the thing:
I know something Ms. Elspeth’s hubby doesn’t know. And that is why I can tell him, to his face, that he’s an idiot. Because only an idiot would hold such a strident view about something they know nothing about.
And the same would hold true of me having such a stridentview of Christianity, even though I never laid hands on a Bible.
Got it?
My statement isn’t personal; it could very well be that I could like Ms. Elspeth’s hubby very much.
It isn’t about attempting to equate any Game manual to the Bible.
It is about highlighting the fact that ignorant people should not and must not be allowed to set the frame of discussion on things. Doing that has led to a lot of ruin in this world.
All opinions aren’t created equal.
I think this is the part where Ms. Elspeth continues to pretend like she isn’t perturbed…
O.
When did I pretend I wasn’t perturbed? I’m not upset, even though you seem to be bent on trying to push my buttons. I feel a reasonable amount of antipathy towards criticism of my husband, as any good wife would.
But given that I know that he is smarter than the average man, the characterization of him as an idiot is not something that I can take personally because it’s a foreign concept to me.
From here on out though, I will be ever so careful not to taint the discussions with any opinion my husband has shared on this particular topic.
Fair enough?
@Ms. Elspeth:
” When did I pretend I wasn’t perturbed? I’m not upset, even though you seem to be bent on trying to push my buttons. I feel a reasonable amount of antipathy towards criticism of my husband, as any good wife would.”
O: Why? After all, is what I said inaccurate? If so, point it out to me, by all means; if not, why be upset about it? I mean, you said it yourself: your hubby CHOSE to remain ignorant about the matter. So, he’s then earned the title of Fool and Idiot, has he not?
“But given that I know that he is smarter than the average man, the characterization of him as an idiot is not something that I can take personally because it’s a foreign concept to me.”
O: My statement was not about his or anyone else’s innate intelligence; it was about his willful lack of knowledge about something he nevertheless feels entitled to look down upon. Only Fools and Idiots do that, all the moreso if they are indeed otherwise thoughtful individuals. Not a good look.
“From here on out though, I will be ever so careful not to taint the discussions with any opinion my husband has shared on this particular topic.”
O: Again, please read for comprehension: I, nor anyone else here, has said that they have a problem with you discussing your hubbie; only that you go out of your way to do so, REGARDLESS AS TO THE TOPIC OR CONTEXT.
Now, I must ask: why do you do this? It’s almost like an instictual, Pavlovian response on your part – present stimuli to Ms. Elspeth, and out comes her “my hubbie is the Sugar Honey Iced Tea and here’s why!” spiel. I’m really curious about this, so I’m hoping you’ll answer – why do you do this? Do you do it in real life? You know, like people will be discussing, I don’t know, the World Cup and how Brazil beat Portugal, and as soon as you’re able you go “my hubbie is the Sugar Honey Iced Tea, and here’s why!” – do you do that? And if the answer’s “no”, why do you do it online? In forums far, far away from your own? What’s going on there? What’s up with that?
Just curious…
O.
Well I certainly appreciate the critique, O. Sincerely.
And given that these discussions almost always center around male/female relationships, I think it’s way off base to claim that I interject insights from my own relationship in random, irrelevant ways.
You are either lying or engaging in hyperbole.. We can examine a number of threads rigjt here at J4G where I commented without mentioning my husband at all.
So the idea that I might mention our relationship outside of the context of a discussion on relationships (say the weather or world cup) is ridiculous.
You’ve made your point, though. Message receivef loud. and. clear.
@Ms. Elspeth:
” Well I certainly appreciate the critique, O. Sincerely.”
O:
“And given that these discussions almost always center around male/female relationships, I think it’s way off base to claim that I interject insights from my own relationship in random, irrelevant ways.”
O: I think they are, in the sense that the recently departed Ms. B’s is – you’re not like that, your hubbie ain’t like that. Great! BUT THERE ARE PEOPLE, IN THIS CASE (BLACK) WOMEN, WHO ARE LIKE THAT.
Now what?
Based on everything you’ve said here and elsewhere, well, that’s not your problem. OK, fair enough; lots of Black folks go MIA for a heck of a lot less, so I really don’t feel entirely justified for upbraiding you for refusing to call out the Sistahood wherever you see them.
Fair enough.
But…where do we go after you go, “my hubby is the Sugar Honey Iced Tea, and here’s why!”?
Really?
Ms. B’s argument was that it was all our fault that (Black) Women suck in our time, because NA(B)WALT, and it’s all our fault for not finding them, and/or being the guys they’d want (this is the line of argument that thus and so blog proffers, dontcha know).
I mean, talk about blaming the victim. Sheesh.
Again: I think it’s wonderful you have a happy home, family and spouse. I think you’re doing a good thing overall in your little blog. I think you’re doing a good thing looking out for all your girls. And I even don’t have a problem with your hubby being a Natural and not needing Game in a formal sense. Even better that he won’t be tasked with actually having to teach a son of his, as, per Ms. Alte, you don’t have sons.
What’s not to like?
But, at the end of the day, how does any of that help any guy here, NOW?
Ms. B admitted that she neither could, nor cared, about that. Perhaps you feel the same way.
In which case my response is to say, that we have nothing more to discuss.
For me, I need to Sistas openly chin-checking each other on their Godzilla behaviors, which you know that I know that you know, is just out of control, fullstop. I don’t need to hear excuses, or rationalizations, or that “Brothas do it too!”. I need to see Sistas stepping up and handling their business. And if they can’t or won’t, then I really have no use for them in my life, and something tells me that my thoughts ain’t that far off for a goodly number of guys here, regardless as to their color.
“You are either lying or engaging in hyperbole.. We can examine a number of threads rigjt here at J4G where I commented without mentioning my husband at all.”
O: Neither; I am making an observation about you in various forums over the past few years in which I’ve seen you interact, and you, at some point in the discussion, will invariably discuss your hubby. I’m just wondering why you do it so often, especially when no one was asking you about him in the first place. You were saying?
“So the idea that I might mention our relationship outside of the context of a discussion on relationships (say the weather or world cup) is ridiculous.”
O: Not entirely; for example, take the discussion on Black Women and boundaries. I would consider your mention of your hubby to be utterly irrelevant, just like I would consider it to be utterly irrelevant here in the discussion on Meeks.
“You’ve made your point, though. Message receivef loud. and. clear.”
O: OK.
O.
O,
Because I am more than certain that a few readers are just tickled to death that you “checked that NAWALT”, I am going to deny THEM the satisfaction of thimking I slinked off in disgrace and offer a thoughtful reply to yout last comment before I take my leave.
But it’ll have to wait a couple hours.
BV: “This country has zero idea what happened in Benghazi.”
Perhaps a nugget of information gleaned from pillow talk with the intelligence asset, Mana Hari?
^&%(&%^ coprophagic emoticon seems inappropriate.
Insert slight smile with closed mouth. Or perhaps a little one-eyebrow up emoticon.
@deti, fwiw, I’m juggling Ecclesiastes 7:16 and 7:17.
BV: Your point re: positive convexity/long-vol trades in the mating market was also made by RH recently somewhere around tequila shot 5-8 (it’s all a blur). Like you, she can intuitively see and apply options pricing models across many life domains, which is probably part of the reason why you have mastered the serial entrepreneur/VC/PE game and she has mastered global macro and running peak AUM $2.5 billion.
Thinking like a PE/HF manager is, in my opinion, the critical strategic posture to take in the modern SMP and MMP. Compartmentalization, neuroecon, exit strategies, risk collars, real options, intelligent valuation, diversification, scaling in and scaling out, etc., etc., etc.
Obsidian: I think you sound like what in MMA we call an archetypal “Sprawl & Brawl” guy. That’s someone who likes to keep the fight on the feet and who uses defensive wrestling—pummeling, whizzer, sprawl—-to prevent the other guy from getting a takedown. This is generally considered a good tactical application of MMA for a street environment, since going to the ground in an unrefereed environment may allow the first opponent’s friends to gang up on you and start the “Riverdance” (i.e., bunch of standing guys kicking a single man on the ground).
Liz: Yes, I think we are all idiots sometimes in the mating market. I have done some very stupid things in the pursuit of sexual adventures. But “risk is the currency of tactics,” etc.
#386 re: plants. Many of the original bloggers who went commercial in the big wave a decade ago were accused of having plants disguised as trolls or cheerleaders. Commenters who seemed to exist for nothing but to make other commenters comment, driving up page views.
Liz: Yes, our man BV has an unfair advantage re: his Benghazi knowledge.
Obsidian,
Elspeth may not be answering your question because it would be better directed at her husband. This may be a boundae issue. I can see hoa answering for someone else could result in bad information being promoted.
It would be a little like asking if he prefers bait or lures when fishing and she never goes out with him.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2304623/Attractive-Convict-meme-woman-revealed-mom-Florida-waitress-Meagan-Mccullough.html
Welp folks, the good folks over at you know where has finally dipped their toe into the big story of last week, by first offering the pat “Men do it too!” argument, per the above linked story from the London’s Daily Mail.
This is supposed to prove, that both Men and Women can be taken in by a pretty face. Well, duh – who has ever denied otherwise? Their obtuseness is rater desparate however, when we compare the actual numbers of sheer responses Meeks and Ms. Simmons actually got – in the case of the former, we know that it is somewhere close to a quarter of a million likes on Facebook by now, with at least10K comments. In the case of Ms. Simmons, there was never any actual metrics applied – just a lot of adjectives describing how “a lot” of Men wwhere trying to contact her.
Hmm.
Then, of course the founder of the feast over at you know where, says that of her 8 young lay focus group, SIX found Meeks attractive, but of course, No Real Woman(TM) wwould ever, ever go there.
Riiight…
OK, so let’s summarize:
“Men do it too!”
Eight young Womens’ Brady Effect words are more important that nearly a quarter of a million’s
And of course, all the Red Pills are just bitter middle aged losers who can’t get laid.
Got it?
SMH…
O.
Obs:
The female argument, and the reference to Megan McCullough, the good looking 27 year old DUI arrestee, isn’t so much “Men Do It Too”
It’s no big secret that men like a pretty face and a hot body, even if the possessor of said pretty face and/or hot body is a slut, an idiot, a trashed out trailer park dweller, an accused criminal, or even an actual criminal.
Pretty is pretty. Hot is hot.
What’s remarkable about the esteemed and distinguished Mr. Meeks is that this is coming from the half of the human race about whom we’re constantly being told that attraction is so “complex”. We’re constantly reminded that “looks don’t matter” (except when they do). We’re told that skinny emo guys are hot, until women can’t find (or claim they can’t find) a hot skinny emo guy. We’re told every day of our lives that women “take sex seriously”. We’re told that sex is “serious business”. Women tell us that women have so much more to risk than men do sexually.
Then we see women making Mr. Meeks into an internet sensation, whilst other higher profile women retreat into “I’m not like that! The women I know aren’t like that! So this whole hot criminal thing is nothing!”
Mr. Meeks puts the lie to “looks don’t matter”. He smashes the meme of “skinny emo guys and nerds are hot”. He destroys the claim that women “take sex seriously”.
Okay Obsidian, I think I get what you are saying, and I will honor your decision as one this blog’s administrators. My reply to what you offered to me.
I think they are, in the sense that the recently departed Ms. B’s is – you’re not like that, your hubbie ain’t like that. Great! BUT THERE ARE PEOPLE, IN THIS CASE (BLACK) WOMEN, WHO ARE LIKE THAT.
The discussion had long veered away from Mr. Meeks, black women, all of that. The original post had been left behind at least 100 comments back and jf12, Alte and I were discussing wifely submission and dominant husbandry.
It is not uncommon (I’d submit that it is the normal blog trajectory) for a a thread to have long spread out into tangents by the time you get to the 200 comment mark. You act as if I just interjected my thoughts like some kind of tick that pops up randomly, and you know that is not, nor has it ever been, the case.
But, at the end of the day, how does any of that help any guy here, NOW?
Ms. B admitted that she neither could, nor cared, about that. Perhaps you feel the same way.
Actually, I do care, which is why I spend so much virtual ink exhorting wives to shape up. I care about husbands or I wouldn’t subject myself to the ridicule that is directed my way for much of what I write.
For me, I need to Sistas openly chin-checking each other on their Godzilla behaviors, which you know that I know that you know, is just out of control, fullstop. I don’t need to hear excuses, or rationalizations, or that “Brothas do it too!”. I need to see Sistas stepping up and handling their business. And if they can’t or won’t, then I really have no use for them in my life, and something tells me that my thoughts ain’t that far off for a goodly number of guys here, regardless as to their color.
Now we’re getting to the heart of it? I’ll be honest with you. When I lived in the hood I wasn’t given to confronting wild women (what you all call beasties). I steered clear because what the heck am I supposed to say to those women? Rationalize with them? You know that is a fool’s errand.
And I am certainly not gonna risk a beatdown confronting a “beastie”. That’s not who am. I believe a woman’s greatest power is soft power. So while I do my part, I will not be chin checking any “beasties” any time soon.
I have concentrated my energy on marriage and homemaking. One can only focus on so much. Black married women? I talk to them, at least to those who seem to cling to some vestige of a belief in marriage God’s way (or Christian marriage to be more direct). There may be more t be done or said, but no one person can or should say all of it, and we all need to work our strengths, rather than strain ourselves trying to do something we are at best, ill-equipped to do.
Neither; I am making an observation about you in various forums over the past few years in which I’ve seen you interact, and you, at some point in the discussion, will invariably discuss your hubby. I’m just wondering why you do it so often, especially when no one was asking you about him in the first place. You were saying?
I’ve asked and answered that. It only ever comes up when discussing relational dynamics and given that this s the only relationship I’ve been in for 20+ years, it is my frame of reference. But you will not have to suffer through it here again, so no worries on that score. I don’t know why you feel the need to keep rehashing that. I’ve said (repeatedly) that I hear you.
Be well, O. I wish you well in your quest to empower and educate black men. It’s a worthy effort. I truly mean that.
#429, moreover, men drool over and make comments about many thousands of women every day. Men are a lot more indiscriminate than women. But when women DO drool, it is over a bad boy universally.
@ deti
We’re told every day of our lives that women “take sex seriously”.
It’s a matter of interpretation and context because “women are more complex than men.”(tm) Women take “sex as pleasure” seriously for the first few months of a relationship, til the newness (or “strangeness”) of the man wears off. Women take “sex as a possible vector for STDs and pregnancy” somewhat seriously. Women take “sex as a tool to manipulate men” very seriously all of the time.
“What’s remarkable about the esteemed and distinguished Mr. Meeks is that this is coming from the half of the human race about whom we’re constantly being told that attraction is so “complex”. We’re constantly reminded that “looks don’t matter”
What planet are you living on? Looks matter. FIRST. They are what the eyes see FIRST. It is what humans are visually attracted by FIRST.
Who told you otherwise?
“Men are a lot more indiscriminate than women. But when women DO drool, it is over a bad boy universally.”
I say its over exceptionally good looking men.
Do you posit that exceptionally good looking men skew statistically toward criminality?
“Enjoying tho discussion but don’t really have anything to add. Except again, women who like Meeks don’t be stupid!”
Liking his looks doesn’t mean liking the man. He’s not my type and I think he looks slightly below average IQ, nonetheless I can see that he is objectively above average in looks for an American man (the pickings are slim here).
Hot is hot. To bed or wed? Not.
Has anyone gotten a hold of his wife’s photo yet? I have a certain picture in my mind of what she looks like, and long story short: it ain’t purdy.
Sfcton, “For years in my marriage, my dogs were the only things I came home to. I would regularly spend X number of days down range doing bad thing to worse people( or waiting around for the opportunity to do so), then come home to a hostile wife, fearful and bratty kids but happy dogs. The 1st time I was gone for a year, my Great Danes knocked me down and pinned me. Man I still love those dogs better then any woman.”
Interesting revelation.
O, “Is Christianity compatible with Reason, Logic, Evidence and Comparison – basically, Socratic Method and Scientific Method? My faith tradtion attempts to reconcile these concepts with the faith itself, but I’m no so sure Christianity does. ”
Islam has its fair share of fantastical myths (night journey and ascension) just as Christianity does. Also keep in mind that Islam accepts the Old Testament prophets and the myths associated with those characters as well.
Does Islam attempt to apply the scientific method to those? Are those myths taken literally or symbolically?
If the answer is “literally” then how is Islam any more compatible with “reason, logic, evidence” than Christianity?
@ 355 BB
Who’s trying to fool them? Certainly not me. no point to it
I work with a man, similar military back ground as me, he hows a bike, has tatts, a pit bull and a glock. but he is a giant goofy farm boy girls don’t take serious. They should, he is a good man, combat tested in 3rd group, and the marrying type. sadly for him he is a good man so he is doomed.
The BJJ guys in Brazil and the few Gracie’s I’ve rolled with have all been decent strikers. For some reason Royce got the ball rolling here so striking is ignored
I have been conditioning my shins for 2+ decades now. The nerve endings are dead and I reckon the two bones have fused into one by now. Thats a brawl winner right there. Last couple of bar fights I got into all began with me driving my shin into theirs and then finishing it with what ever shots that left open, knees or elbows to the head mostly. Did drop a guy a while back with a head butt. Those work well, but I reckon I want to be where ever the other guy doesn’t. I prefer the inside game or ground and pound, but in a street brawl you take him to the ground while remaining up right and finish it with stomps and kicks. Course I wear steal tool work boots or bike boots everywhere I go. Point of all that is, you have to fight your own fight. We all have different strengths, weakness and mindsets. I have short little t-rex arms so the sprawl and brawl doesn’t work well for me but it damn sure works for others
@ 437
what it says is dogs have shown me loyalty, fidelity and matched best effort for best effort then any woman has. my statement is one of condemnation for the so called fairer sex
Yeah, Sfcton, I know exactly what you meant and that’s why I said, “interesting revelation”. It makes sense of your previous comments.
#436 she’s a purty little white gal, looks, I dunno, bright, in the chipper sense.
#435 “Do you posit that exceptionally good looking men skew statistically toward criminality?”
Nope. I posit that women are so weird that *after* being told a guy is a thug then they think he is better looking.
“Because, by all accounts, he exhibits qualities of high genetic quality. And therefore, represents good mating material.”
I don’t agree. He looks dumb, skewing lower on the IQ spectrum. Having to steal a car because you don’t have the money to buy one is also not an exhibit of “high genetic quality”.
“”I don’t agree. He looks dumb, skewing lower on the IQ spectrum. Having to steal a car because you don’t have the money to buy one is also not an exhibit of “high genetic quality”.””
It does show pro-active, initiative-taking, problem-solving skills, and a dreamy lack of concern for bourgeois restrictions. Could be attractive in the short run.
“It does show pro-active, initiative-taking, problem-solving skills, and a dreamy lack of concern for bourgeois restrictions. Could be attractive in the short run.”
Yeah, to women who lack future time orienation (lower on the IQ spectrum).
Assortive mating!
@ scfton I would say the same is true in my life, not only for men but even for friends and family at times. If only people understood loyalty/commitment/forever like dogs do! In fact, I have heard it said that it is hugely traumatic for a dog to be “given away” because that’s just not something that happens in the dog world. Supposedly they never get over it.
And, if one believes n the biblical explanation of things, animals don’t have “free will” so they do what’s naturally right. People with their “higher intelligence” can’t seem to manage it. Damn apple! It’s been messed up ever since. Just a thought…
[…] over at JustFourGuys has done an admirable job of picking this study apart. Needless to say the study begins from a point of error, relying on a sample group of early 20s […]
A female version of Meeks is as attractive to fellas as Jeremy was to the ladies:
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/09/24/angela-coates_n_5875536.html?cps=gravity
“TreezyT @Treezy100
I would sell off our family house for the bond money, leave my wife and kids homeless for Angela Coates :(”
“slim reaper. @dustyfootharry
angela coates probably has 2 of her ex-boyfriends buried in her backyard but i still love her”
Fem-Bingo win
“men do it too”*
*well two nut jobs in comments on MuffHo who may be joking.
Here’s the difference between Jeremy Meeks and Angela Coates.
Most women could sleep with Mr. Meeks if they wanted to.
Most men could not breathe the same air as Ms. Coates, even if they wanted to and worked years for it.
what it says is dogs have shown me loyalty, fidelity and matched best effort for best effort then any woman has.
Heck, my cat sleeps in my bed more regularly than my ex ever did.
Magnificent site. A lot of useful info here. I am sending it to a few pals ans also sharing in delicious.
And obviously, thank you on your sweat!